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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Which is best when changing to 12v?

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Jim in NC

11-20-2003 16:18:44




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I have changed several Farmalls to 12v systems. Is better performance achieved by changing to a 12v coil with resistor built-in or using the 6v coil and putting a resistor inline to reduce the voltage to the coil? Thanks for your thoughts.




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49 Cubber!

11-20-2003 17:38:13




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 Re: Which is best when changing to 12v? in reply to Jim in NC, 11-20-2003 16:18:44  
Since i dont have a single John Deere,I dont know what to tell ya,but i can tell ya my Farmalls all have a 12 volt coil,with a built in resistor .None have burned a set of points in the years I have used them,except one,it was at that time a daily worker and had a 12 volt coil without any type of resistor,built in or external,but they still lasted abut 3 months like that. Ihave never seen a resistor to the starter and have all my starters on 12 volt setup and have yet yo replace one,but I have had then rebuilt before I put them to use

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jdemaris

11-21-2003 05:48:53




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 Re: Re: Which is best when changing to 12v? in reply to 49 Cubber! , 11-20-2003 17:38:13  
If your mention of a "resistor to the starter" is in response to my posting, you seem to have mis-read it. I mentioned a resistor "bypass", which actually has nothing to do with the starter. A tractor with a 12 volt battery and a 12 volt starter will generally drop to a system voltage of somewhere around 9 volts when cranking. That's why, when being tested, a 12 volt battery is load tested at 9 volts. So . . . when a tractor is being cranked, the coil will also be getting around 9 volts if its getting full system voltage. If it's hooked to a resistor, it might be getting only 4-8 volts - which is still enough to start and run in most conditions, but sometimes won't in cold weather, with fouled plugs, bad wires, wet cap, etc. That's the reason why most ignition systems have some sort of way of bypassing the resistor when the engine is cranking. Ford had the bypass built into their relays, Delco had it built into their 12 volt solenoids. Some companies built it into their starter switches. It's a simple thing to do, and can be added to any tractor with $10 in parts. There are also some coils built with internal resistors that are heat sensitive, and kind of accomplish a sort of "bypass." When cold, they pass full current, but once running for awhile, they heat up, and resistance increases, voltage drops, and thus the life of the ignition point life is enhanced. Another way to increase voltage during cranking is to use a bigger battery. The bigger the battery, the less voltage drop during cranking. I don't want to make an academic study out of this and get over-technical. My point is, if someone wants to take to time to update their tractor, why not take an extra ten minutes and do it right?

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49 Cubber!

11-21-2003 08:44:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Which is best when changing to 12v? in reply to jdemaris, 11-21-2003 05:48:53  
It appears I got mixed up big time on this,heck I thought he was working on a Deere too!My mistake!



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jdemaris

11-20-2003 17:24:31




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 Re: Which is best when changing to 12v? in reply to Jim in NC, 11-20-2003 16:18:44  
I'm not sure what you mean by "performance." A gas engine is good condition will run the same with 6 volt coil getting 12 volts or a 12 volt coil getting only six volts. Ignition point life will be affected though. The ratio determines "potential" current, i.e. an ignition system will only produce the amount of current necessary to jump the gap in the spark plug. So . . . even though one setup is capable of higher output than the other, you won't notice it under normal circumstances. Variations, e.g. increased gap, or high resistance plugs wires can demand more voltage, so it's possible have a condition where one system might outperform the other in unusual situations. John Deere had the bright idea to use 6 volt coils with 12 volt systems along with a ballast resistor. The system worked okay but the ignition points didn't last very long. Anyway, in my opinion and experience, a good old fashioned 12 volt coil hooked to a ballast resistor works fine. Along with it there should be a resistor bypass hooked up for when the starter is cranking the engine (to aid in cold weather starting). There are many ways to do this. Some starters already have a bypass terminal on the solenoid. There are also ignition switches available with a bypass such as John Deere used. Also, which I find to be very reliable and adaptable to virtually any tractor, is get a starter relay like Ford used on their cars and trucks (and tractors) up the late 70s. The relay has a resistor bypass built into it and costs around $10.

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Bob M

11-20-2003 17:15:49




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 Re: Which is best when changing to 12v? in reply to Jim in NC, 11-20-2003 16:18:44  
Jim - There's no measurable performance difference between the two. For simplicity I prefer the "12 volt" coil....but the 6 volt coil + resistor works fine.



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Bill B

11-20-2003 17:13:34




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 Re: Which is best when changing to 12v? in reply to Jim in NC, 11-20-2003 16:18:44  
I think you will find that the output is the same. If you are switching to electronic ignition, then you can use one of the high output coils that do not have a metal can,otherwise the output of the old style coil will be about 20,000 volts.



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