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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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International Harvester Deisel Engines Question

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Lynch

11-11-2003 22:24:49




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I need a real IH pro here to help me out with a few questions about IH diesel engines. I have only had a MF with a Perkins Diesel engine that is excellent. My question is what diesel engines would I find in IH tractors such as the old beautiful 460's, and 560's, and up to 706, 756...and those type models? I really like the Wheatland wide fronts, and any sort of High Crop style. I heard of a German Diesel in one. Is it any good? Who made it? What are the sizes? I know this may be a pretty broad question, but I only ask for the diesel info instead of asking for all the engine info...and I know there have to be some experts out there that can spout this stuff off the top of their heads in their sleep. I am seriously thinking of going to an IH for my next tractor, instead of a MF 135 to 175 with the Perkins and multi-power(live on flat ground). What is a good 35 to 40hp IH diesel that is comparable to the same size Perkins...or is it a Perkins? What about an IH 60hp diesel? I have an old family friend that was a dealer in Oregon for mainly IH and A-C, but he is seriously ill, and 2800 miles away, so I can't ask him too much. Does IH have any Perkins motors in their tractors? If so, which ones? The most important question, I guess, is what are the best diesel tractor models by IH in the 35hp to 40hp range...because I think I will go smaller than my current MF175. I'm getting more acreage whenever possible here in E. Texas...and need strength and reliability in a medium to small tractor. Any info would be greatly appreciated and I will thank you now, ahead of time. Lynch

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Dr.EVIL

11-12-2003 13:32:37




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 Re: International Harvester Deisel Engines Questio in reply to Lynch, 11-11-2003 22:24:49  
I would suggest You look for something from the 70's or early 1980's, a model number 454, 464, 474, 484, or 574, 684, 784. First models are in Your 35-40 HP range with IH Nuess (Germany) plant built diesels, The last three are larger tractors, 50,60,&70 HP with larger displacement Nuess engines. Similar chassis design to MF, adj. WFE, low profile step-thru operator's platforms, cabs were available, also AWD.

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ken

11-12-2003 18:03:36




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 Re: Re: International Harvester Deisel Engines Que in reply to Dr.EVIL, 11-12-2003 13:32:37  
my 3414 backhoe has a perkins gas and i believe the diesel versions also used perkins



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Dr.EVIL

11-13-2003 13:57:06




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 Re: Re: Re: International Harvester Deisel Engines in reply to ken, 11-12-2003 18:03:36  
KEN - Just shows how screwed-up IH Construction Div. was, They couldn't even use the right engines! ;-) There were Few hard & fast rules at IH but for the most part IH equipment HAD to have IH Engines, At least in the AG div that was the case. Odd too because the Other Side of the main aisle where the IH 6-cyl. diesel engines were made, Melrose Park, IL Plant, was a Construction Equip. plant, Crawler tractors built there. I'd still take an IH Nuess engine over a Perkins anyday. All the tractors I listed about should have Nuess diesels.

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ken

11-13-2003 18:08:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: International Harvester Deisel Eng in reply to Dr.EVIL, 11-13-2003 13:57:06  
the main thing i hate or hated about the perkins gas was the zenith carb,piece of s#*t if ya ask me.fixed that problem lickity split went out to the parts shed and dug up an old 47 willys jeep carb,blew the dust out of it put it on and man this thing just purr's now.



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Larry B.

11-12-2003 06:51:44




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 Re: International Harvester Deisel Engines Questio in reply to Lynch, 11-11-2003 22:24:49  
Lynch, I have owned five MF's from the late 1970's thru 1995 and the perkins motor in the 175 diesel 236 cu.in. is a hard motor to beat. The only thing is there is not enough tractor for it. I have also owned five other IH tractors plus the five I have today. I don't want to start an argument, but to me there is no comparison with in the two tractors with about the same hp. My old 560 ,62 hp., would walk away from my 175 also 62hp. My 706 factory hp 72, but mine turns around 80 would out pull my MF 1080 with a 318 diesel at 81 hp. The MF tractors I owned all had good motors but not enough tractor for them. The hydrolics on the IH are ten times better in my opion, a lot faster, eaiser to work on. On the IH, you don't have to split the tractor to work on the pto,hyd's or brakes. IH also in the 70's, made some utility tractors that equaled the MF 165 & 175, the 574 52hp & 674 61hp both 4cyl. The only thing I don't like is the shifters on my 706 & 806. The shifters on the 56's series you can't beat them. IH had the 310 & 358 was the german diesels in the late 706 & the 756 (310) and the 826 & 886 (358). To me, sounds like a 756 would make you a real good tractor, around 76hp. The MF's I had were a 1080,two 175's, two 165's. The IH's were a M, super MD, 504, 460 & 560. Today I have a 856,1206,two 806's & 706.

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Hugh MacKay

11-12-2003 03:08:16




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 Re: International Harvester Deisel Engines Questio in reply to Lynch, 11-11-2003 22:24:49  
Lynch: To start with IH only ever used one diesel that was not their own manufacture, that being the Continental used in the Farmall and Utility 350.

The earliest IH diesels were the 4 cylinder gas starts used starting in the mid 1930s with the WD40 and ending with the 450, W450 and 650 in 1958. IH in Europe began building direct start diesels in the mid 1950s both in Britian and Germany.

In the mid 1950s as well IH started a line of American built direct start 6 cylinder diesels. The first ones were used in the 460, 560, 660, early 706 606 and 656. These were all glow plug type engines, with pre combustion chambers. About mid 1960s they started using German built IH in all 4 cylinder tractors and the smaller 6 cylinder tractors. The large 6 cylinder diesels continued to come from American plants. Generally speaking the German diesel were noted for their long wearing ability. There were some over lap in sizes of 6 cylinder engines. The American engines were noted for their torque.

If you ever drive a good working American built IH diesel you would call your Perkins a Mickey Mouse affair. I have never had much experience with 4 cylinder IH diesels. I can tell you all the 6 cylinder both German and American built IH diesels are capable of going 10,000 hours plus to their first rebuild, with good maintainence. Probably the best of them all was the 361 and 407 used in the 06 and 56 series tractors. Some of those have 25,000 to 30,000 hours on them today.

There were also some Japaneese diesels used in under 25 hp tractors near the end. Those may be another exception as I am not sure who built them. That is a general rundown, I'm sure you will hear more specifics as day goes on.

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THANKS, GUYS! Lynch

11-14-2003 09:19:58




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 Re: Re: International Harvester Deisel Engines Que in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-12-2003 03:08:16  
I will print up this info and save it...by the way...Our MF 175 w/ the Perkins and Multi-power has over 12,000 hours on it without a rebuild and runs like a powerhouse...has only had a generator rebuild...it has a few minor leaks, but is still as strong as ever...just looking for a little smaller and like IH trucks and tractors. Thanks again! Lynch



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Allan

11-12-2003 04:14:42




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 Re: Re: International Harvester Deisel Engines Que in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-12-2003 03:08:16  
Hugh,

Did IH build that D414?

I think this is one of the finest engines ever built from any manufacturer at any time. Practically bullet-proof

Just wondering, and thanks for loaning us your brain.

Allan



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Aces

11-12-2003 10:33:01




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 Re: Re: Re: International Harvester Deisel Engines in reply to Allan, 11-12-2003 04:14:42  
That D414 is one of 5 D414 DT414 DT436 DT466 and now the new trucks have a DT530 with 350 HP



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Big Jim

11-12-2003 14:14:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: International Harvester Deisel Eng in reply to Aces, 11-12-2003 10:33:01  
Speaking of trucks, its too bad that IH stopped building light duty trucks years ago. Just think what they could have put out. Would have given Chrysler, Ford and GM some serious competetion.



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