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DT414 cavitation question

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Chad

11-04-2003 07:16:59

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I've got a quick question that I was hoping the forum could help me out with. We have an IH1086 with the DT414. The tractor runs warmer than I believe it should. Even with light duty jobs the temp guage runs midway in the green (still not technically overheating but much warmer than I expect). I plan to check/replace the thermostat in the near future but I also wondered if it could be caused by cavitation(or the damage from cavitation).

Could anyone tell me the details of the cavitation problem with the 400 series diesels? What exactly was the failure mode (what is damaged)? Could this be causing the problem? If so, can this be remedied with an overhaul or is the motor ruined?

I remembered hearing about this issue some time ago. Specifically, I remembered hearing that it was prevalent in motors that haven't had the coolant conditioner/filter changed regularly. I know this tractor hasn't so that got me thinking that cavitation could be the issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Chad

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RPM

11-07-2003 08:30:09

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Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Chad, 11-04-2003 07:16:59

I doubt that cavitation erosion of your sleeves is the problem, your crankcase oil would turn to gray fluid that does not lubricate the crank, I have seen this many times, if you have erosion it will leak into oil pan, this is caused by the microscopic burst of bubbles eroding holes in the sleeves outer surface where coolant circulates. As far as temperature goes if its not boiling out coolant then its not really hot, guage or sender could be reading a little low/high.

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p-c-y

11-05-2003 05:20:24

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Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Chad, 11-04-2003 07:16:59

have your radiator boiled out,

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Hugh MacKay

11-04-2003 13:41:33

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Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Chad, 11-04-2003 07:16:59

Chad: The only time you will get heating as a result of this is when the holes or cracks happen in the sleeves and anti freeze goes to the crankcase. The heating at that point is created because of low coolant level in cooling system.

The first of these 400 engines in the 66 series tractors came without a water filter. IH knew of the potential problem yet did nothing, no recall, etc. My 1066 did this at around 9,000 hours and that was 5 years after the first ones did it.

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Chad

11-04-2003 16:41:47

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Re: Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-04-2003 13:41:33

Hugh, Our 1086 has 8000 hours on it right now. If your 1066 went 9000 hours and had this problem then I should probably start being concerned. Dad bought this tractor new in '78 but I guess he never got the memo stressing the need to change the water filter/conditioner (unfortunate). It does still run well but uses some oil and has this issue with the temp guage running on the high side. Oh well, it's probably long past due for a rebuild anyway.

Anyhow, thanks to all for the responses. It sounds like there is some question as far as what I meant by cavitation. If anyone would like, I'll explain this phenomenon as clearly and briefly as I can but it will more than likely end up being a small novel. I'm one of those people that we all curse about as we are wrenching on a broken piece of equipment, wondering who the h*ll designed this and what in the h*ll were they thinking, if anything! (I'm a mechanical engineer).

Thanks again,
Chad

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Jens Andersen, Denmark

11-04-2003 11:43:08

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Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Chad, 11-04-2003 07:16:59

Hi Chad.
Next time you run your 1086 check the temperature
in the radiator with a thermometer. I did that to
my 1568 since I thought I had the same problem
( overheating) by pulling a ripper. But it only showed 176 degrees F, so it could be your gauge
being wrong.
Best wishes Jens Andersen Denmark

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Ben in KY

11-04-2003 10:35:53

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Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Chad, 11-04-2003 07:16:59

I think the cavitation that is being referred to here is the bubbling/swirling action of the water/coolant around the sleeves. The diesel detonaion of the fuel can/will cause the water to swirl/bubble and errode holes in the sleeves. Or so I have heard. The soloution is to use additives in the coolant or a heavy duty coolant that will help prevent this.

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Aces

11-04-2003 10:12:36

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Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Chad, 11-04-2003 07:16:59

aS IT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANY WET SLEVE, WHEN THE WATER GET DURTY air bubbles on the out side of the sleve and when they brake they pick the sleve and after time the sleve can get a hole through it. I don,t think it would cause over heating. You need to change the water filter.

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RickB

11-04-2003 14:31:29

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Re: Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Aces, 11-04-2003 10:12:36

Actually, parent bore (sleeveless) blocks suffer from cavitation, too. Ford tractor engines come to mind. Long story short, if you run a diesel, pay attention to the coolant conditioner.

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Adam

11-04-2003 09:44:18

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Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Chad, 11-04-2003 07:16:59

Do you mean detonation?

ABW

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Bob

11-04-2003 13:26:10

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Re: Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Adam, 11-04-2003 09:44:18

Of course he does. Pretty obvious to me, anyway.

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Stuart

11-04-2003 08:14:19

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Re: DT414 cavitation question in reply to Chad, 11-04-2003 07:16:59

You are right about changing the filter on the 400 series motors, you need to do it religously.
When you mean cavitation, do you mean on the sleeves,because thats called electrolosis. Where is this cavitation happening?

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