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IH Failure - tractor building business in general

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Steve - IN

11-01-2003 11:03:58




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There's an interesting discussion below that started about one dealer's recollections, and turned into a talk about why IH failed, plus a comparison to Deere. I liked it, got me to thinking: Seems to me that these things make a bit more sense if you take a broader view of the whole situation -

The number of farms has been in constant decline for the last 100 years or more here. With the same number of suppliers fighting over a smaller pie -- they're all going to get hurt somewhat; some will be hurt a lot more than others.

Every outfit has some backbiting between engineering, manufacturing, marketing, finance, etc.; all finger pointing. It's the nature of company polictics. They all made some klinker tractors -- JD took #1 share in the mid 60's (I think) even after they'd made some klinkers with the 1010 and 2010. Read some of the comments on the JD board about those turkeys, and bear it mind that it might be difficult to blame IH's problems on one model or series; or one marketing department.

The way the tractor makers planned for the certainty that they'd have fewer farm customers seems to be as important as anything else. IH chose to diversify into construction equipment, trucks, etc. Not a bad strategy. They located at 180 N. Michigan Avenue in Chicago (that part of the big city being about as mentally removed as possible from the farm market) and employed "hired gun managers" to spread their risk by trying to juggle a number of balls (different, non ag markets). Deere, which seemed to be the most conservative of the bunch, stuck to just the AG business and stayed where the family had always been, a fairly small town in Illinois (interesting to note that the guys running JD have seem to always be related to John Deere himself, albeit oftentimes by marriage.) Deere was generally the slowest to innovate, therefore all their new products seemed to copy whoever else, and they were probably the last of the US makers to build/acquire production offshore.

The "family" at Deere never wanted to sell out (in much the same way as the Ford family still controls Ford). They stuck close to their knitting in the AG business, and generally didn't need gurus from Manhatten. The "hired guns" at IH and the other, more diversified, outfits needed financing to diversify, so they had to play by the "golden rule" meaning the guys on Wall Street with the gold make the rules. Easy to see why one outfit could get pushed too hard, too fast and eventually make a mistake and be dismembered of one or more of the balls they were juggling -- or maybe have the whole outfit sold down the river.

Fast forward to yesterday. Deere stock (ticker DE) trades at an all time high of $60.75, up 60 per cent from March of this year. This is a company that has underperformed the SP500 for nearly all of the last 10 years. How come? Looks like JD has shown Wall Street that most of their earnings come from outside the USA and outside the AG business. Will this now "International" company "Harvest" the same problems as IH? Time will tell -- but maybe the smart money will let JD run a few more bucks, then book it as a good, solid short for the next nine months.

Also yesterday I found the following info on some other remaining tractor suppliers: 1. "Italian FIAT owned CNH (Case IH + New Holand) has lost money for the past three years as it focused on integrating product lines from the merger of Case Corp. and New Holland NV. It said it still expects to report a profit before restructuring charges in 2003 the stock is rated underperform." 2. "Agco (ticker AG, known to us as Allis Chalmers tractors). AG is one of the world's largest farming equipment manufacturers, with operations in the U.S., South America and Europe. AG has already benefited from emerging reflation, with Q3 worldwide revenues up 16% to $800 million and Q3 earnings up 69% to 22 cents per share. Despite this uptick, shares of AG remain -33% below their 52-week high that was reached late in 2002."

Seems to me the worm has turned 180 degrees. The once pure ag play, Deere, is a diversified construction equipment supplier closer to CAT, and enjoys a stock multiple like CAT. While Case/IH, New Holland plus Agco are now seen as "pure play" all agricultural suppliers - with weak stock prices to prove it. Or, to use the phrase that is said to always be right for all occassions: "this too shall pass".

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Mark

11-04-2003 00:41:54




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 Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in gene in reply to Steve - IN, 11-01-2003 11:03:58  
This is my opinion on the downfall of big red.Plain and simple lack of design improvements.My case in point,look at the placement of the controls on your"M",throttle behind the steering wheel,p.t.o. lever behind the seat,if you have a"MTA",t/a lever to your left and that made the tractor hard to get on and off.Now go look at your 1066,see what I mean?



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Hugh MacKay

11-04-2003 18:59:04




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 Re: Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in in reply to Mark, 11-04-2003 00:41:54  
Mark: I think you best compare the M and MTA to other tractors of that era. In the 1950s getting on and off tractor, the Farmall was a gem compared to most.



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IowaWill

11-02-2003 19:47:43




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 Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in gene in reply to Steve - IN, 11-01-2003 11:03:58  
Many interesting stories and comments and if I read right Deere passed IHC in the late 50s in sales. I guess I have always thought IHCs decline began after the production of the 56 series with the 56 and JD 20 series both being fine tractors. What I've always thought is that JD was first to recognize that the operator was not a part of the machine. The 66 series while ok tractors were no competition for the 30 series JD in terms of operator comfort in my opinion. By the time that the 86 series came along and provided a more comfortable cab so did the 80s and nobody was selling lots of new equipment. Just my 2 pennys.

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Hugh MacKay

11-02-2003 05:07:50




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 Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in gene in reply to Steve - IN, 11-01-2003 11:03:58  
Steve: It matters very little who was at the head of the various companies. The key to all of this is are your excutives in touch with the end consumer of the product.

In my opinion the problems at IH started with fast hitch and that was the single biggest factor in their down fall. I know there are those amoung you who think fast hitch was and is great. However, no one else was using it. Harry Ferguson had won the hitch war before IH sold it's first fast hitch. IH flogged the fast hitch for close to 10 years, while everyone else had gone 3 point. Right away, a factor such as this eliminates all those customers who don't buy every piece of equipment from one source. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, many many customers left IH never to return, and it was all to do with fast hitch. The fast hitches on the 300-400, 350-450 and 460-560, being used as a drawbar for pull type equipment as well were crap. Big pull type implements beat the pins and pin hole to a point you may as well been pulling that pto forage harvester or baler with a 2 foot long chain. I cut the fast hitches on my 300 and 560 up for scrap before they were 10 years old and bought standard H-M type drawbars. This whole issue was never a big factor in my operation as I really never used mounted equipment. I was definately not the norm, mounted equipment came on market fast and furious during the 50s and 60s. No question in my mind that was the beginning of the end.

Other factors also happened along with this that sickened a lot of farmers. The 560 rear end problems. TA and IPTO were great but weren't perfected until 06 and 56 series tractors, much too long. Cavitation of the sleeves in the 66 series tractors, another boondogle IH knew of in advance and knew how to cure it. At 8,000 hours the performance of my 1066 was such if figured I was headed for 15,000 hours to first engine rebuild. Then one day on heavy tillage heat gauge started rising, too late, crank ruined from anti freeze. Just weeks before this tractor had been dynoed at 160hp, and that was as it came from factory. At same time I had a 100 hp Deere with power shift, that did go 14,000 hours before engine or power shift were touched. You can easily see where I would have been going had I been in the market for another tractor.

Then IH topped it all with those 88 series and the foreward air flow cooling. Didn't take an engineer to see that was junk.

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Steve - IN

11-02-2003 11:08:59




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 Re: Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-02-2003 05:07:50  
Hugh,

So maybe the point is why does any outfit try to reinvent the wheel with 2 point hitches. Even managers totally removed could see there was already a standard in 3pts. My point was that 1. they were arrogant because they worked on Michigan Avenue instead of a small town. 2. They had sold their soul to money lenders in the temples on Wall Street - so they were pushed hard to squeeze out every bit of extra profit by trying a "lock in your customers' add on buys" strategy like the 2pt system just to service the huge debt loan the company was under.

Still, they could have done it had they been aggressive and truly owned the company. The obvious contrary example is "crazy (like a fox)" ol' Henry Ford who knew that to set a standard (like 3pt on N's) you needed huge economies of scale that gave you the ability to undercut the market and do huge unit sales volumes. The family at IH didn't own the outfit like Ford or Deere - so they ended up doing half baked short term sniping tactics.

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Hugh MacKay

11-02-2003 15:06:47




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 Re: Re: Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in reply to Steve - IN, 11-02-2003 11:08:59  
Steve: I for one will not argue with your reasoning. Back in the 50s and early 60S those old boys on Wall St. thought IH had the farmer hooked on letter series Farmalls and they could indeed get away with this lock in your customers selling. Their intelligence has not improved since. In their favour is the fact the consuming public of today is much like a herd of cattle, led by the nose.

Remember this, my dad bought land in 1938 for $1.00 per acre in a tax sale, and yes it was land formerly owned by the boys on Wall St. You may not be able to take advantage of this type of purchase next time as your share of public debt will be quite high from governments around the world bailing these guys out. Our governments should have let this happen in 1983. By now hard working people would be prospering.

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Dave BN

11-02-2003 04:49:50




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 Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in gene in reply to Steve - IN, 11-01-2003 11:03:58  
To bring this back to the point of this board, the fact that farm equipment is built tough must play a role in this. That would make sense if equipment production reached it's peak in 1956-1957. Also it seems to me that obsolescence plays less of a role in farm equipment than most of all of the rest of the manufacturing business's. The two year old computer im using is obsolete, but my 60 year old BN can still play a role on most farms today and with little maintenalce! Indeed, many of those who post on this board tell of using their M's and H's every day, though they are at least 50 years old. I'd hate to be a salesman in a business like that! Dave.

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Guy Fay

11-01-2003 19:05:59




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 Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in gene in reply to Steve - IN, 11-01-2003 11:03:58  
I guess I'd disagree on several points:

1. IH had just as many family members involved with the company up to the early 1980s as Deere did, including running the company at points. Fowler and Brooks were CEOs, other family members were on the board.

2. While Michigan Avenue may have been the big city, for much of IH's history the executives (up into the 1950s) had farms nearby- while most were gentlemen farmers, so were the Deere guys.

3. The hired guns held power at IH only from about 1978 on. Most of IH's executives started young with the company and moved up- maybe not part of the McCormick family, but definitly not outsiders. The IH white collar employees generally considered themselves part of a "IH" family.

4. Most of the diversification push wasn't hired guns- the guy who made the main push into trucks had started in the grain harvesting business at the age of 13, and switched to McCormick Harvesting Machine Company (it wasn't even IH) at the age of 18. Same gentleman was responsible for the development of refrigeration, although the push into that business (as well as contruction) was led by a sales vice president who had started selling farm equipment in 1913. THe first internal combustion experiments for Deering Company took place in the basement of the man who tested the very first binder twine. "Hired Guns" had nothing to do with the diversification.

5. CNH is not a pure ag play. Case of course has a large line of construction equipment, including a large market in loader backhoes. I believe that Fiatallis is also considered a part of CNH now as well. In fact, it's construction equipment that's been holding back profitability in the last couple reports I've seen.

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Steve - IN

11-02-2003 11:36:55




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 Re: Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in in reply to Guy Fay, 11-01-2003 19:05:59  
Guy,
The major thrust had more to do with famly (meaning blood) ownership and debt to equity ratios than the points you mention, but to address them ad seriatim:

1. They were involved on the board. A board gives advice. They didn't own 51%, so they didn't control.

2. Go stay a while on Mich Ave -- anywhere from the Conrad Hilton to the Drake / Playboy buildings on Walton. You might as well be living in London. There's a far different mindset there than Moline, Illinois.

3. The family control (blood family, not touchy/feely psycho babble stuff) - 51% ownership - had slipped away far before the 70's. Ownership resided on Wall Street. Compare that to Ford A shares which neither you nor I can ever own because our last name isn't Ford, or the proxy votes the family trusts can muster at DE.

4. Please re-read my post. Time order of things was a strategy to diversify -- then -- hire some guns to execute the strategy. The comparison was to Deere, which trailed by 40 or 50 years in diversifying out of the pure ag business.

5. Would you buy CNH to own part of the money hemorraging construcion business? Or, would you buy it to own the part that is making money? That's the ag part, and if you buy to make money; that's the part you're playing. FIAT does own majority control -- but that's not who makes the Allis tractor you can buy now. That's AG, or Agco, a totally different ag play - ticker AG versus CNH.

Read the 10Q filings from CNH. They have negative net assets even before you discount the >$2 billion booked as a phantom asset called "Goodwill". There's going to be a 2 billion dollar write down coming someday. The ownership is in Dutch, German, Italian banks who won't think twice about firing the lastest gun who can promise a pop in quarterly earnings and says he can turn the book value of the operation from red to black. Contrast that to the style you might see if your name was Ford or Deere-Wiman and ownership of the operation was a sacred trust passed down through the family -- meaning your blood offspring, not employees, or hired guns.

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Paul in Mich

11-03-2003 06:24:45




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 Re: Re: Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in reply to Steve - IN, 11-02-2003 11:36:55  
It goes to show you what happens when bean counters drive corporate strategies, rather than customers. It has happened in the ag business, and it has happened in the auto industry. Isn't it amazing how the retro styled cars sell at a pace that keep the assembly plants working overtime? Bean counters do only what they think is in the best interest of the quarterly report to stockholders, while real designers and corporate execs are driven by customer wants and needs. Bean counters operate on a slippery slope.

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Hugh MacKay

11-02-2003 03:37:25




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 Re: Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in in reply to Guy Fay, 11-01-2003 19:05:59  
Guy: Just to add a bit to your post, diversification at Deere was well underway by 1960. I bought one of their forestry skidders in 1975. At that time they had a complete line of backhoes, small dozers, articulated loaders, excavators, forestry skidders and harvesters. They also had a very well oiled dealer network in Eastern Canada any way.

Since that time they have added large dozers, road graders, large earth movers and off highway dump trucks. In fact I have seen opinions that Deere's push into heavy equipment has been the only very real competition Cat has had. This probably had as much to to do with Cat's expansion into Ag Equipment as any factor.

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FarmallH42

11-01-2003 18:36:46




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 Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in gene in reply to Steve - IN, 11-01-2003 11:03:58  
Great post, interesting reading, thanks for sharing!!



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Bo in Maryland

11-01-2003 18:32:43




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 Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in gene in reply to Steve - IN, 11-01-2003 11:03:58  
..... very interesting post Steve.....I've heard that tractor sales in the US peaked in 1956-1957.....from that day to this it's been one continous dog fight for market share..... I live in central Maryland and at one time Farmall was king around here..... nobody, and I mean nobody could touch their dealer network....the closest dealer was 6 miles away.....next closest was 8 miles in the other direction.....plus you could also get parts from Sears and Wards..... .now the closest CIH dealer is 28 miles and 32 miles respectively.....neither one of them is setting the world on fire..... the dealers that are prospering are power equipment specialists..... the guys that sell commercial chain saws, weed eaters, lawn mowers ect..... I would say that lawn care and landscapers are the new "agricultural" equipment market in our area.

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Steve - IN

11-02-2003 10:48:36




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 Re: Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in in reply to Bo in Maryland, 11-01-2003 18:32:43  
Bo,
Same here. Forty five miles to the CIH dealer. Fifteen to the New Holland dealer. The JD dealer is 6 miles away. If this old phart hadn't started a love affair with a red H as a 5 year old in the early 50's - the only thing you'd see here would be green.



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Brad Kimball

11-01-2003 18:04:53




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 Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in gene in reply to Steve - IN, 11-01-2003 11:03:58  
Steve, Great reading your posting. As the agricultural world continues to change, would you expect Deere to do well over the next 5 years?



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Steve - IN

11-02-2003 10:45:00




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 Re: Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in in reply to Brad Kimball, 11-01-2003 18:04:53  
Brad -- that's the 64,000 dollar question. If we both knew; we'd be relaxing on our tropical islands. Here's my estimation, though: DE is trading at 22.8X and has a debt/equity ratio of ~80/20. Priced to perfection, and highly leveraged. One hiccup and it's tank city. I think it sees 35 a share long before it sees 75 a share, so much more downside risk than upside gain potential at this point. Go short or load up on puts - but a more obvious short might be Cummins, which has a ticker symbol that can't be posted on this board, the first three letters of the company name, and is trading at ~300x earnings.

If you're only looking to go long in equipment stocks, CNH might be the worst place to put the money. Negative net worth and run by Europeans who vacation a month or more out of every year. Sounds like colekicker works there, so for his sake and the sake of the stepfather outfit of our Farmall tractors - lets hope it's a good turnaround. But if it's your money and you want to sleep at night -stay away. AGCO only grows by acquistion, it seems. They're due for a fall when they run out of outfits to buy. The place to go would be the place with the most growth possibility -- and that's probably a China/Asia play. KUB, Kubota, is a lower risk/lower growth play. If you feel aggressive; try CYD, China Yuchai - a kind of Chinese Cummins. Same kind of play in India with Tata or Mahindra. Maybe safer to park in CHN or IFN (China and India exchange traded funds). I've got some money there and have done very well this past year, but it's high risk money (as all high growth money is) - so you should be set to dump at a moments notice, just set yourself rolling 5% stop loss points and you should be OK.

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colekicker

11-01-2003 13:30:19




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 Re: IH Failure - tractor building business in gene in reply to Steve - IN, 11-01-2003 11:03:58  
In response to the CNH part of your post, Fiat had some large hanging debt they brought to the table. Overall, CNH is the #1 producer of ag equipment in the world, bigger than Deere. Be sure at the end of this year they will show a profit. Fill orders for parts warehouses were in the $20 million range this summer. Ya, they had that many dollars in parts on order, and they still have not caught up, and will not until next year. Blame that on upper management. Problem for the consumer, but heck, I bet that makes the stock look good in the end. But, they had to do something after the reverse stock split earlier this year. It would only take a couple of changes and CNH would rule the market. As for AGCO, their number of dealers has consistently fallen over the years. My nearest dealer is an hour away. The next closest is over an hour and a half.

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