Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

M piston size and turbo

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
collegeboy

10-21-2003 19:52:41




Report to Moderator

Well I am sitting up at school think about the old farmall M. Having grown up arounds these and worked on many of them. What is the absolute largest piston that could be put in the block with and still use a sleeve. And has anyone ever thought of putting a small turbo on one. Thanks fellas




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
little red turbo puller

01-28-2008 10:28:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to collegeboy, 10-21-2003 19:52:41  
I have a 1941 farmall H with a turbo on it. It is a stock motor. It is making about 80 pto Hp at 15 psi.There are some tricks to get it to work with a up draft carb.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
max adams

10-22-2003 16:53:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to collegeboy, 10-21-2003 19:52:41  
i'm not sure as far as pistons go.but with the muscle cars that i've messed with,you can do anything i've seen some wild set-ups.so i guess
one could do the same with the M.gas is gas and always remember(theres no replacement for displacement)...a little joke! as far as the turbo,on a gas engine i always thought you had to have a waste gate? and these can be a pain!
again anything is possible.this is my two cents!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
bindernut

10-22-2003 10:04:32




Report to Moderator
 Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to collegeboy, 10-21-2003 19:52:41  
Seen an M with 4 1/8 pistons(stock 450 pistons) Block had to be bored slightly to accept sleeves that big. This is what I've been considering doing on my M.

Bindernut



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
rustyfarmall

10-22-2003 12:52:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to bindernut, 10-22-2003 10:04:32  
I saw one like that too, they had to stop using the tractor when the thin cylinder walls cracked.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dr.EVIL

10-22-2003 07:33:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to collegeboy, 10-21-2003 19:52:41  
Son & I (Son's also a college Kid) have had this discussion many times. Firing order in the H & M are O-K for naturally asperated engines but not the best for forced induction. First thing You have to do is change the cam so You can alter the firing order. Stock is 1-3-4-2, and you need 1-4-2-3 or 1-3-2-4. Problem is the front two & back two cylinders share intake ports. Once You fix the firing order You can adapt a Ford Mustang A9L computer from a 5.0L HO Mustang to run electronic fuel injection. Then You can just absolutley go crazy with boost & add-on boost control parts.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Troy - MI

10-23-2003 14:29:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to Dr.EVIL, 10-22-2003 07:33:01  
In order to change the firing order, you'd have to change the crankshaft too. For instance, if your order changed to 1-4-2-3, piston 1 and 2 would have to be in the same position in the sleeves. Same with 3 and 4. OEM engines have pistons 1 with 4 and 2 with 3. How do you accomplish this? Do you mill a new crankshaft? Sounds like a lot of work!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dr.EVIL

10-25-2003 05:09:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to Troy - MI, 10-23-2003 14:29:45  
The M's & H's have 180 degree crankshafts, two pistons up and two down. The crankshaft shouldn't need to be changed. Timing events are controlled by the cam, so from 1-3-4-2 I guess the new correct timing order would be 1-3-2-4, or 1-4-2-3. I don't know what that would do to harmonics in the crankshaft. Ignition firing order could be changed at the distributor cap. Goal is to get the intake drawing air as smoothly as possible, and to convert to electronic fuel injection. With the right tuning software the 49-state manual transmission '87-'93 Mustang computer A9L has all the other parameters including cylinder count adjustable with a computer.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Troy - MI

10-25-2003 17:31:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to Dr.EVIL, 10-25-2003 05:09:04  
Think about it. The position of the pistons match the firing order. Each piston in the order are 180 degrees from each other. 1 is 180 from 3 is 180 from 4 is 180 from 2. Changing the camshaft order to 1-4-2-3 would mean that piston 4 would be 180 degrees 'out of phase' WRT the cam. Same story for piston 2. The distributor timing could be changed to match cam timing by switching plug wire locations. But pistons 4 and 2 would be at the bottom of their cylinders when their plugs fire. If only the camshaft/plug wire timing were changed, you could get away with getting the engine to rotate in the opposite direction. This is how twin/four engine piston-powered aircraft engines are designed.

My first passion is building '60s Pontiac GTOs....I've tried so pretty strange stuff to get more HP. But forging and milling a new crankshaft is beyond my abilities.

Troy - P.E.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
sod

10-22-2003 22:37:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to Dr.EVIL, 10-22-2003 07:33:01  
Why do we have to change the firing order? I'm not trying to be a smartalec, I just need to know.
good luck
sod



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dr.EVIL

10-23-2003 07:35:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to sod, 10-22-2003 22:37:22  
The intake ports are siamesed, meaning they split into two ports inside the head. This is O-K for a naturally asperated engine since the first cylinder starts the air/gas mixture moving into the first cylinder and when the intake valve closes the mixture is already moving and just diverts towards the other cylinder with the open intake valve. Under boost You exaggerate this situation and would have one cylinder getting more mixture than the other, making more power and making tuning a bear! It "MAY WORK" with the OEM firing order, but it would probably work better with it changed. In order to make the turbo fit I'm assuming your throwing the entire intake/exhaust manifold out and fabricating from scratch. I saw a 1939 to 1942 gasoline powered FARMALL M at a Super Stock tractor pull 30 yrs ago in Davenport, IA that was turbo-charged but I never saw the left side of the engine to see how He had it plumbed. He was still running the IHC Magneto. He also had PLENTY of power for the class He was pulling in! I also have a small picture with caption from a farm magazine from 25+ yrs ago about a Farmall H that was turbocharged. Gas engines really don't lend themselves to turbocharging. The pressurized fuel/air charge burns WAY too hot. And most people try to run way too much static compression. A good turbocharged gas engine needs to have 6 or 7 to 1 compression, REAL good gas, Best ignition possible, and then should be able to make 2, maybe 2-1/2 HP per cid. The trick is to run low compression with LOTS of boost. Even diesel engines run this way now.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
rustyfarmall

10-22-2003 04:56:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to collegeboy, 10-21-2003 19:52:41  
On a straight M, 4 inch is the max. Super Ms can go 4 1/4.
Someone posted a picture quite a while back of an M diesel with a turbo, I don't know why you couldn't put one a gas, it would take some engineering, but nothing is impossible.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Nebraska Cowman

10-22-2003 04:10:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: M piston size and turbo in reply to collegeboy, 10-21-2003 19:52:41  
I had a super M with 4 ¼ inch pistons. Am sure there were tubo kits too.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy