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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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PTO Generators

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steve in va

10-03-2003 16:48:40




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Anyone use one as a backup for their home? If so, what size and what tractor. Also, do they put out good regulated electricity. After Isabel, I realize I need more power than a 5kw portable generator. I dont wanna buy something that was designed to power hand tools and will burn up refigerators and TV's. Maybe the electral was a good idea.

Steve




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David Bacon

10-04-2003 19:07:49




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 Re: PTO Generators in reply to steve in va, 10-03-2003 16:48:40  
60 cycles are very important, many times overlooked with the PTO units. I tell everyone to unplug their freezers & refrigerators for the first couple of days. If they are not opened they can last a long time. A good idea is extra mules, as if a governor is cracking open, and you are running motors--fuel consumption is the least of your problems. If you put your tractor on her knees to operate anything like lights, and water heater you are probably not hurting anything, but motors can not tolerate low cycles. Exceeding RPM's is defiantly not advisable. As for HP----- Overdo is always better than under do. I tell most of the generator owners to use them at least two times a year. Another word of caution when making your own cart for the generator is wide ---good---narrow---bad--A farmer I know had a bigger generator do cartwheels when he dumped a big load on it. I also worked for a guy that sold generators, and we were very surprised how many good electricians found that a leg wire and a ground wire looked the same, and never dreamed of trying the generators before a ice storm. Dave NE Iowa

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boog

10-03-2003 22:03:16




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 Re: PTO Generators in reply to steve in va, 10-03-2003 16:48:40  
I have a 25kw pto unit I bought in 1978 ad probably have used 4 or 5 times on the house. Longest being about 15 hrs. One thing for sure, you will appreciate how cheap your electricty is from your power company. We had an electrician come in and recomend the size we needed. I wanted something that would run the whole house, didn't want to worry about having to watch what was on when. You never know when some motors are going to startup, such as well pump, refrig, water heater, or furnace. At the time it would handle everything at once in the house except the oven & electric stove top. Could only have one on at a time along with rest of the house. Since then we have gone to gas stove top and gas hot water heater so it should be able to handle everything now.

An M will run it with no problems but I prefer to use the 4020D. That way I don't have to worry about the rpms being pulled down under changing loads. Also better fuel economy as the 4020 never strains.

I recomend that you have an electrician size up your needs before buying. If you already have a tractor that is the way I would go. You can buy a lot more capacity for what that engine would cost.

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Merlin in Saint Louis

10-03-2003 21:08:24




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 Re: PTO Generators in reply to steve in va, 10-03-2003 16:48:40  
Hello! I am a generator repair technician that was most recently working for Cummins in Saint Paul, MN. Cummins is the owner and distributor of Onan brand products, a company which manufactures generators up to 2000KW. They used to build PTO units, but discontinued them in the late 1980's. Here's the part that will interest folks of the Red persuasion: one of our most popular generator sets during the 1970's and 1980's was powered by an IHC engine. The Onan model 55KB and 85KR were powered by IHC UV401 and UV549 engines, respectively. These units ran on natural gas or propane. I am willing to bet my next paycheck that there is a nursing home in your town with one of these IHC-powered units sitting in the basement as a standby power source. They are a little bit on the fuel hungry side, but are strong runners. If you called a local Cummins Distributor, you might be able to get hold of a used one for your farm or home. They are great, dependable units, and best of all, they are powered by an IHC engine! Just thought you all might be interested. Best wishes to you!
Merlin

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Bob

10-03-2003 21:01:51




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 Re: PTO Generators in reply to steve in va, 10-03-2003 16:48:40  
I would strongly suspect most well-made PTO generators would be more stable than a little 5000 watt unit, PROVIDING you get the tractor RPMS right for 60HZ power, AND the tractor governor works well.



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carl in nc

10-03-2003 20:02:53




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 Re: PTO Generators in reply to steve in va, 10-03-2003 16:48:40  
I ran my house with a thirty year old winpower pto unit for eight days during the jan.03 ice storm. The lights flicker a little when the hot tub, water heater, range and well pump are all cycling on and off, but everthing is still working including all my tvs and computer. The unit is a 35kw surge/ 20 kw cont.



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Hugh MacKay

10-03-2003 19:50:20




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 Re: PTO Generators in reply to steve in va, 10-03-2003 16:48:40  
Steve: When farming I had a pto generator, that would run the 100 cow dairy barn plus my house. Always ran it with 656 diesel. At milking time with coolers, milking equipment, silo unloaders, house, etc. you could tell 656 had a load,with every thing going. I think diesel is a must if you are going to keep your 60 cycles per min. right. I have hooked 300 or 130 to the generator with little more than house load. I think a 130 or a Super A would run the average house, if your governors are steady enough. You probably wouldn't want to be running an electric hot water heater, washing and drying clothes and cooking a roast turkey with all the trimmings all at the same time.

If you are going to do this you should have the light for checking cycles per min. You should also add a shut down switch to tractor, that is designed to shut down if problems with oil presure, water temp, etc. arise. Around here they call them a MURPHY switch.

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Roger

10-03-2003 17:33:17




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 Re: PTO Generators in reply to steve in va, 10-03-2003 16:48:40  
Steve, I have a 20 or 25000 watt (can't remember which it is). I got it after we had a major ice storm here in NW Iowa back in 1991. I've never tried to run it with my Farmall F20 & the next bigger tractor is a MM UTI 40 hp & I know it runs the generator ok. As far as how "pure" the power is that it puts out, I'd want to check it with an oscilloscope before hooking it up to the house since there are so many sensitive electronic gadgets around here anymore. Keep one thing in mind, no matter how big the generator is, whatever is hooked to it will only draw what it needs to run. It's when you hook up too many things is when you run into problems

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kjm

10-03-2003 19:36:14




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 Re: Re: PTO Generators in reply to Roger, 10-03-2003 17:33:17  
Roger, How much fuel are you useing per hour? I am trying to decide on a pto drive or a stand a lone unit. Thanks KJM



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Roger

10-03-2003 19:56:09




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 Re: Re: Re: PTO Generators in reply to kjm, 10-03-2003 19:36:14  
KJM, I didn't run it with the MM tractor very long, not enough to tell how much fuel it would use, maybe 10-15 minutes. With a stand alone unit, it's another engine to do maintenance on. If I need to do a weld or other repair in the field, I already have a tractor there to run it anyway. Other than that, I don't know of any drawbacks to a stand alone unit, if you were going to use it a lot, the stand alone would be faster than hooking up a pto shaft all the time, just turn the key!

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KJM

10-04-2003 21:19:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: PTO Generators in reply to Roger, 10-03-2003 19:56:09  
Thanks Roger, I was just thinking of my Super C running day and night for 36 hr. (Mother`s Day tornado)at the wife`s restaurant. REC lost power for about 2hr. UE was out for 36hr. one side of the hwy. has UE and one has REC.



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JB

10-03-2003 19:18:00




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 Re: Re: PTO Generators in reply to Roger, 10-03-2003 17:33:17  
During the ice storm of 1998 in eastern Ontario, my brother had the loan of a 25KW 3pt hitch mounted unit. It had 3 meters on it 1 for frequency, 1 for voltage, and 1 for amps. He ran it for 2 weeks on his IH495D about 40HP. I made 2 hooks ups for him, 1 at his dairy barn and the other at his house. It had some kind of internal transfer switch that would not connect the load until the PTO was turning fast enough to produce 60 Hz power. 60 Hz was produced at 540 PTO RPM.
The biggest problem is how sensitive the govenor is on the tractor when the electrical load changes especially when starting AC motor loads like a barn cleaner or milker vacuum pump that have starting currents of 2.5 or 3 times running current.
The demands on the tractor when connected to the house was much less as most of the load was completely resitive like electric stove, hot water heater. The water pump motor and furnance blower motor or fridge motor starting had no effect on the tractor.

Hope this helps.
JB

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Heath

10-03-2003 18:59:35




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 Re: Re: PTO Generators in reply to Roger, 10-03-2003 17:33:17  
We have owned several different brands (dairy) and I think the Katolight we have now is the best. When the lights are the right brightness the motors are running the right speed. Some generators run the motors slow when the lights are about right and if you run the motors the right speed the lights are way to bright. The voltage and cycles aren't correct. Katolight have electronic control I believe although you still have to speed the tractor up for heavier loads. Just my 2 cents.

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