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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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H that keeps running after it is shut off

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Pete H

09-28-2003 15:35:04




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I had a handy man tune up my H. He put points plugs and a carberator kit in it. It diesels now when it is warmed up. The tractor runs ok other than that. What would cause it to diesel.




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CNKS

09-28-2003 18:06:53




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 Re: H that keeps running after it is shut off in reply to Pete H, 09-28-2003 15:35:04  
Set the timing at 0 degrees with the engine off and no. 1 at TDC. If you have a mag the point setting is 0.013, distributer is 0.020. Set the float level and main jet to the specs in the book, or you will have other problems. I this doesn't work, then you have carbon as the post below says. Push in the switch and pull the choke rod all the way out. This cuts off the air and the engine will usually die.

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Steve - IN

09-28-2003 16:01:22




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 Re: H that keeps running after it is shut off in reply to Pete H, 09-28-2003 15:35:04  
Pete,

Assume that you're using the term "diesel" to mean it keeps running when you switch off the igntion.

Dieseling is generally caused when an engine is running hot enough to turn carbon deposits in the combustion chamber into a source of igintion. That is, even when the spark plugs are shut down, there's enough heat in the crud in the chamber to ignite the gas.

That's become a common problem with lean burning emission control engines. So a lot of modern engines have solenoids which shut off gas flow when the igntion is turned off to prevent this problem. The first, easy, step to try would be to close the throttle before you switch off the ignition. Next trick would be to turn the main jet to rich, or counter clockwise, a turn or two -- it's that screw pointing to the rear and down at a 45 degree angle from the carb -- a richer setting won't generate the extra heat that causes the dieseling. If there's still no fix, try lowering the float setting so there's not as much gas available in the bowl of the carb. Worst case would be to pull the head and the pistons and clean off all those carbon deposits which are causing the problem.

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the tractor vet

09-28-2003 17:14:29




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 Re: Re: H that keeps running after it is shut off in reply to Steve - IN, 09-28-2003 16:01:22  
Lowern the float level will inhance the problem First off he proble has the plugs gaped wrong the points set wrong and the timming way off and the carb realy screwed up and all this for 49.95 . The plugs should be a D15or 16 Y or a C86 AC and should be gapped at .025 the timing should be at TDC or at most 5 before the points should be .019 and with out getting my book out on the float setting i can not tell ya off the top of my head Always remember that LEAN IS MEAN.

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Steve - IN

09-28-2003 18:26:52




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 Re: Re: Re: H that keeps running after it is shut in reply to the tractor vet, 09-28-2003 17:14:29  
tractor vet,

You might be right, but it's Sunday and so I was being charitable by assuming his handyman knew what he was doing. Least nothing was mentioned about his changing the ignition timing.

If the plugs are the wrong heat range, or just not torqued down right so they've become "glow plugs"; he could just reinsall the old plugs and see if that cures it. Another idea would be to retard the ignition timing a bit, as I think every 5 degrees of advance can raise chamber temps by 75 to 100 degrees. Net cost of the above is zero -- the kind of fixes we like!

Maybe the best advice is to read the color of the exhaust smoke and/or pull a plug and compare it to one of the hot/right/lean series of pictures of plugs here on the web. I don't know if plug gap or dwell is going to be a make or break item on a low compression non-turbo engine, but your main point seems to be that the cause or the cure can be on either the fuel or the fire side of the engine; and that's the truth.

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the tractor vet

09-29-2003 08:40:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: H that keeps running after it is s in reply to Steve - IN, 09-28-2003 18:26:52  
For some reason the type of gas that one burns in a Farmall makes a lot of differance as we have learned the hard way . In my area i had a lot of customers that farmed with gas powered Farmalls and i have been the route with problems from running the wrong grade of gas and working a gas powered Farmall . From plug flowing to burnt valves and melted pistons , Carb settings are vary imporant along with timing , With the age and ware on old tractors i have found that almost all have a great deal of ware in the centrifical advance in the dist. and with each point change the timing changes not much but it does change . And with the burning of this new unleaded gas that burns a lot hotter then the old gas of days gone by you have problems . I have spent big bucks having gas lab tested to see why i had a engine failure and after reading the owners manuals on fuel requirement of the tractor found the cure and that is why i use a recomend the use of octane of over 90 as we and all my customers use 93 and it has cured 99% of problems and you can up the timing and that will give a faster start up but you must try to keep the full advance at full throttel from going much over 2to4 drgrees above factory specs. One tool that not many use anymore is a dist. strobe as it is becomming a lost art of setting up a dist with all the transistor and H.E.I. out there everybody has forgot about total advance .

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Steve - IN

09-29-2003 16:50:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: H that keeps running after it in reply to the tractor vet, 09-29-2003 08:40:16  
tractor vet,

Interesting. Still have two strobe timing lights and noticed that my distributor was "scattering" spark at high RPM. Shimmed up the shaft inside, and that made it more uniform - but never messed with the advance weights or springs; probably make a good winter project.

Have also noticed that a few turns of the main jet will make a dramatic change in the EGT levels, so I fully agree it's easy to overheat and burn valves, and so on.

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Dr.EVIL

09-29-2003 11:46:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: H that keeps running after it in reply to the tractor vet, 09-29-2003 08:40:16  
MAN..... Someone else who understands Gasoline! Your exactly right, High octane resists the chemical change the gas/air mixture has to go through under high heat and pressure before it actually burns. IF this chemical change happens too soon or too easily the combustion event starts WAY too soon. And that increases the tempurature of the spark plug tips, valves, piston tops, etc. Drastically. Lot's of "Experts" have told Me You don't need Premium Gas in a 6:1 compression engine..... but I still use it... along with a gallon or two of leaded race gas per 5 gal. of no-lead. Your right about plugs too. Any Farmall should run fine with a D-16 or D-15Y plug. If Your pulling Your Farmall hard with a D-21 something is Seriously wrong! I'd expect it would burn valves, detonate, maybe even break pistons from over-heating them.

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the tractor vet

09-29-2003 18:06:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: H that keeps running after in reply to Dr.EVIL, 09-29-2003 11:46:57  
With over fortyone years of working on engines and my short drag racing career and head performance mach. for Ford And Chry. and the many pulling engines that were the top dogs and all the spare parts that i have made i think that i have some idea on what makes a engine go but i am not to old to learn something new. If ya want to see a big truck that can realy go ya should see the one that i am running now , sorta like driven a Hemi Road Runner Pullen a 16 foot boat when i have over a 100,000 on and blowen buy then guys that think they have a large car ILOVE HORSE POWER.

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Pete

09-29-2003 05:11:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: H that keeps running after it is s in reply to Steve - IN, 09-28-2003 18:26:52  
Thanks for the help. The guy that did the tune up has fixed a couple of my other tractors and they run great now.

Thanks again!

Pete



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Wayne Swenson

09-28-2003 15:59:48




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 Re: H that keeps running after it is shut off in reply to Pete H, 09-28-2003 15:35:04  
Try reducing the idle RPM's to 450 or less.
Is the high speed mixture set rich enough?
Is the idle mixture adjusted slightly rich?



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SLH

09-28-2003 15:58:35




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 Re: H that keeps running after it is shut off in reply to Pete H, 09-28-2003 15:35:04  
It sounds like to me your kill switchs has died and is grounding itself out even when it is not suppose to be. That would provide power to the coil at all times. Also if you have a magneto i think that if it gets out of adjustment it will cause that too. (but that is reling on memory here and might not be right)



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