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Letter series book

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RichardWV

09-25-2003 17:14:43




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Just received Farmall Letter Series Book for my 48th Birthday. I was a little dissapointed to read on page 87 that the M was the replacement for the F-20. The M was F-30 and the H was the replacement for the F-20.




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mbnok

09-26-2003 20:22:00




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 Re: Letter series book in reply to RichardWV, 09-25-2003 17:14:43  
I remember bringing up the F-20 v H thing to a neighbor of mine when the H I bought in 56 didn't seem to do a much as an F-20. He said I needed to work on My H, I did and he was right. He was one of 4 brothers. Their F-20 came new on rubber and so did the H. They worked that H to the point they overhauled it every year and half untill they got the M new in 48 I thought that M was the bigest most powerfull thing in the world.

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Guy Fay

09-26-2003 04:03:57




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 Re: Letter series book in reply to RichardWV, 09-25-2003 17:14:43  
And it is absolutely not a mistake. In fact, IH's own documentation proves this, and they put out the information to the dealers as well. Here's what happened:

IH started development of an F-20 replacement in the mmid-1930s. The development focused on reducing costs, increasing horsepower, and reducing weight. A lot of the development focused on reducing weight.

So IH took that F-20, developed a different frame, put a bigger engine in it that produced more horsepower, and was so successful that the y got the Farmall M. It may have F-30 horsepower, but weight is closer to the F-20. I'm not remembering costs right now, but I think the M was closer to F-20 that F-30.

Same deal with the F-14 replacement. Bigger engine for roughly the same size transmisison and weight. THe F-14 was considered to be a two plow tractor in many conditions, the H was a solid two plow tractor.

The A and B were all new chassis designes, aiming very solidly at the one plow market. About the only thing they used from the F-12 was engine, but again, in a lighter tractor.

So it's not a case of me being wrong, it's just a case of common sense being wrong. Again, I did my homework on this stuff- the advertising saying the same thing is in the archives. If you want the development history, check out my experimentals book.

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Dr. EVIL

09-27-2003 19:32:18




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 Re: Re: Letter series book in reply to Guy Fay, 09-26-2003 04:03:57  
GUY - Where's a person get a copy of Your Experimentals book? I need it to complete My Library!



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CNKS

09-26-2003 06:04:17




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 Re: Re: Letter series book in reply to Guy Fay, 09-26-2003 04:03:57  
You will get no argument from me. After I posted, I remembered your explanation. But, I believe many farmers replaced their F20 with an H, instead of an M (my dad did). Thus the rumor got started. As an aside, although the H is a more modern tractor, I have heard that the F20 had more usable power.



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Farmall450man

09-26-2003 06:44:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Letter series book in reply to CNKS, 09-26-2003 06:04:17  
Having spent many hours in the seats of a '39 F20 on factory rubber and a '52 SH, I find your comment on usable power interesting. I know that the SH had more power than an unmodified H, but the SH definitly had more power than the F20. I think that there were a lot of other factor than the power. The H & SH were easier to steer, had one more gear, a water pump, a hydraulic pump, and an engine with a third main bearing. The H/SH was just easier to use than the F20 and the engine was easier to get more power from. Don't get me wrong, I have fond memories of the F20. But I couldn't keep up with Dad on the SH when plowing, both using 2-14's.

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CNKS

09-26-2003 19:26:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Letter series book in reply to Farmall450man, 09-26-2003 06:44:57  
I have an H and Super H, and would not trade either for an F20, I have no real attachment to the F series. As you said, the H is far easier to drive and has more features. I do not know the hp of an F20, my dad had one when I was a kid that he traded for an H, and that's what I remember. Drawbar ratings for the H and Super H are about 25 and 29. That 4 hp gain for the SH is 16% more than an H. Considering the several thousand hours I drove an H when I was a teenager, I would have liked that 16%. I'm not sure how a comparison between and F20 and a straight H would come out, both in second gear. I was too young to drive the F20.

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Harold H

09-26-2003 04:50:27




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 Re: Re: Letter series book in reply to Guy Fay, 09-26-2003 04:03:57  
I agree with Guy. The M was definitely the replacement for the F-20, not the F-30.

Harold H



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gene b

09-26-2003 03:29:10




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 Re: Letter series book in reply to RichardWV, 09-25-2003 17:14:43  
I to notice bad info in some books. As WILSON says people get misinformed by reading such. I remember when lots of the old tractors were new and how they were.



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CNKS

09-25-2003 19:33:25




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 Re: Letter series book in reply to RichardWV, 09-25-2003 17:14:43  
Guy Fay makes far fewer mistakes than anyone else. Problem is if you proof read your own stuff, you will not catch all your mistakes, and if someone else proof reads, they may not know all the details as to which tractor was replaced, etc. Guy Fay is the best there is at what he does, as is Ken Updike. I have looked at several Farmall books in bookstores (would like to have them all), but have passed on several, because the mistakes jump right out of the page at me. As to what replaced what, I am aware of the differences between the F12/14, F20, and F30. As everyone knows the A, B, H, M superseded these tractors. Someone can correct me, but since the letter series shared few parts with the F series, I'm not sure IH looked at them as replacements, but more as a whole new line of tractors, sort of like when JD brought out their New Generation. However, I have always assumed the sequence was F20/H and F30/M. I suppose the sequence was that the A and B "replaced" the F14, but these were totally different tractors.

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Roger

09-25-2003 18:56:55




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 Re: Letter series book in reply to RichardWV, 09-25-2003 17:14:43  
I also have seen a lot of mistakes in these tractor books. In the Farmall H Photo Archive book there is a picture of a B and they call it an H (there is just a little difference there). I also have a book that shows close-ups of H parts and said it was on a B. I think people today count too much on computer spell checking, are in too much of a hurry, and don't use their brain. Roger



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curt

09-25-2003 18:40:38




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 Re: Letter series book in reply to RichardWV, 09-25-2003 17:14:43  
i've seen one say that the H was a replacement for the F 14



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w gatewood

09-25-2003 17:36:10




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 Re: Letter series book in reply to RichardWV, 09-25-2003 17:14:43  
there will always be mistakes in these books. there is a new book out called the big book of farmall's and i have several tractors in it and it has several mistakes in it it is sad to see people being missed informed of this information



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jld

09-25-2003 20:06:03




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 Re: Re: Letter series book in reply to w gatewood, 09-25-2003 17:36:10  
Glad you could let us know that your tractors are in this book. So what exactly do you have to do to get a tractor into a book. Did you write this BIG BOOK OF FARMALLS yourself?



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w gatewood

09-26-2003 05:40:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Letter series book in reply to jld, 09-25-2003 20:06:03  
hello JLD , no i didn't write this boox it was written by a book author named Robert Pripps.



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Dick Davis

09-27-2003 02:48:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Letter series book in reply to w gatewood, 09-26-2003 05:40:17  
I would never argue with Guy Fay, his research is tops. What I don't get about IHC's logic and advertising as far as replacements is what replaced the F 30 in row crop line? If they told dealers and customers we have made new/better/more powerful replacements for the F series what about the 30? Dick Davis



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Guy Fay

09-27-2003 08:19:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Letter series book in reply to Dick Davis, 09-27-2003 02:48:35  
What IH essentially said was that we're NOT replacing the F-30. The tractor really hadn't sold well compared to the F-20, and was seen as heavy and not that useful. Of course today, they're going up in value, but IH's management in 1937-1939 really didn't think all that much of a row crop tractor of that size. Remember, the H outsold the M well into the late 1940s. Most of the farms were small, and farmers were used to putting in a lot more hours in the field.

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