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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Farmall A Timing Problems

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Richard Fazio

09-12-2003 07:25:36




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My buddy has a 1946 Farmall A. We checked the timing with a light and found it to be way advanced. Like 20 or 30 degrees advanced from the timing mark. I know your supposed to check it staticly but we couldn't get any kind of accurate setting trying to hear the click of the mag. It should be ok to time using a light, no? It was so far advanced and the mag is set all the way to retard. I figured we could pull it out and move it over one tooth on the gear. Nope it has a key and slot so it can only go in one way. What am I doing wrong, or how can I correct it? Thanks.

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ID-9 farmer

03-10-2009 10:18:37




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 overall kit ID-9 in reply to  



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gene b

09-13-2003 03:36:18




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 Re: Farmall A Timing Problems in reply to Richard Fazio, 09-12-2003 07:25:36  
When running the advance should be 34deg. You cannot change the timing of a mag on an A unless you move the rotor or the timing gears. The fire on impulse at T.D.C. when engine starts goes to 34adv.



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Bob

09-12-2003 08:48:46




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 Re: Farmall A Timing Problems in reply to Richard Fazio, 09-12-2003 07:25:36  
Somewhere in that 20 - 30 degree range would be CORRECT RUNNING TIMING. (I don't know offhand what the exact lag degree spec of your impulse would be.)


At cranking speed, the IMPULSE COUPLING in the mag catches, winds up a spring for 20 or so degrees of crankshaft rotation, and then "trips", giving you a HOT spark at about 0 degrees.

This does 2 things... the quick snap of the spring gives a hot spark from the mag to aid in starting, and the winding up of the spring retards the spark timing for starting.

This "static" setting at about 0 degrees is important because if the engine were ever to be hand cranked, you do not want a spark before 0 degrees (TDC), as a "kickback" will occur, likely to injure the person cranking! When these tractors were made, the manual usually referred to "static" timing", as timing lights were not commonly available in farm settings, and the timing could easily be set by slowly rotating the engine with the spark disabled, and the point at which the impulse coupling "snapped" could be referenced against a timing mark.

As the engine "catches", and speeds up, centrifugal force acts on weights in the impulse coupling, and swings them to a position where they do not "catch", disabling the snap action, and the timing advances all at once to the running timing.

In that way, the timing on these "mag" engines differs from engines with a distributor.

With a distributor, the spark advance occurs from idle up towards governed speed at a rate determined by the "ADVANCE CURVE", which is set up by the manufacturer's choice of weights and springs in the advanve mechanism.

To sum this up...
If you set the static timing to the manufacturer's spec for static timing (X number of degrees, or a mark labeled "spark") at which the impulse should trip as the engine is SLOWLY turned over, the running timing WILL BE CORRECT, ASSUMING THE CORRECT IMPULSE COUPLING IS PRESENT ON THE MAG, AND IS FUNCTIONING PROPERLY.

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Bob

09-12-2003 08:58:43




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 Re: Re: Farmall A Timing Problems in reply to Bob, 09-12-2003 08:48:46  
PS...
Are you having a problem with the tractor, such as kickback, or hard starting, or are you just doing a tuneup? Does your friend have and use electric start, or is he cranking it?

You mention not hearing the impulse snap when trying to set the static timing... Providing you are using electric start, are you sure you have a mag, or does the tractor have a distributor conversion?

If it does, in fact, have a mag, and you are not hearing the impulse snap when you crank it slowly by hand, you may have a broken impulse, or it may be gummed up. With electric start, an engine with a failed impulse would start, but would be difficult or impossible to start with a hand crank.

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Richard Fazio

09-12-2003 10:41:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Farmall A Timing Problems in reply to Bob, 09-12-2003 08:58:43  
Yes it is a mag. We do hear the snap sometimes but it is hard to tell where it occurs as we turn the engine slowly over. The mag is an IH mag. It does start ok and run ok with the mag set all the way to retard. If we come off the fully retarded position it will not start. We are starting with a starter not a crank. We are checking the timing because we had a problem with the tractor overheating. We also found the head gasket leaking so that is in the process of getting fixed now. I though I'd find out everything I could about the timing. Thanks for the info. I'll try again and see if I can see where it's occuring. It still seems that I shouldn't have to be all the way to retard to get it to run. That's the only reason I think something isn't right.

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Red Dave

09-12-2003 11:40:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmall A Timing Problems in reply to Richard Fazio, 09-12-2003 10:41:22  
Richard, The way I check it is take the plug out of #1 cylinder, put my thumb in the hole and crank slowly until the pressure of the compression stroke pushes my thumb away, then shine a light in the plug hole and get the piston to top dead center. Take the distributer cap off and see if the rotor is pointng at the terminal for #1. If it is, it should be good to run.
I don't know if that's the "official" way, but it always seems to work for me.

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