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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super M vs M

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toot

07-23-2003 11:25:43




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Other than the bore size, what diferences are there in the motor. What I'm getting at is I know of a M and super M for sale. The M is cheaper, but I am wondering if you could make the M match the super M's power.




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john d

07-24-2003 21:53:45




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 Re: Super M vs M in reply to toot, 07-23-2003 11:25:43  
I have one of each, and they are BOTH great tractors! The SM has a bigger CID block. Most M tractors have been re-built to the 264 CID sise of the original SM by using thin-wall sleeves. But, most SM models have been re-built to an even larger 281 CID using the same method.

The SM has wider gear ratios, especially noticeable in 3rd and 4th. If you're going to be spending a lot of time hauling heavy hay wagons in 4th gear, the SM will provide a more pleasant experience. If you're doing heavy tillage, that slower 3rd gear in the M is nice.

Band brakes on the M are easy to maintain, and work well. Disk brakes on the SM need more maintenance, but when adjusted correctly, are superior in my opinion.

You can get 50-55 hp out of either one without a lot of bother. If the SM is an early model (stage I) it will have no big advantages such as live hydraulics.

My suggestion, DRIVE each one, put a gauge on the hydraulic system of each one, and go with the tractor that is in the best overall condition.

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Medfarm

07-23-2003 21:54:44




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 Re: Super M vs M in reply to toot, 07-23-2003 11:25:43  
If the Super M is really a "Super M", it is worth at least $1000 more than the M if they are equivalent condition. M's in central California are cheap as the area is heavy row crop farming. In my opinion, the 400 is a far better tractor than the Super M because of the continuing advancements in tractors during that era. The 400 does not seem to interest collectors like the Super M does. Never could figure that out. Must have something to do with the mystique of the original Farmall M name. Good luck and enjoy. I have 4 M's. Ray

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Mguy

07-25-2003 21:35:10




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 Re: Re: Super M vs M in reply to Medfarm, 07-23-2003 21:54:44  
Yeh mistique and that400 is one ugly lookin' sumbatch.Mguy.



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Ludwig

07-23-2003 19:08:50




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 Re: Super M vs M in reply to toot, 07-23-2003 11:25:43  
The Super M is also geared higher in 1st through 3rd I think (might just be first and second) for quicker plowing.
The M actually has the superior band brakes. Apparently (I've not worked with them myself) the disc brakes on the gen II Super Ms were fairly poor. My gen I has bands...



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CNKS

07-23-2003 19:48:20




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 Re: Re: Super M vs M in reply to Ludwig, 07-23-2003 19:08:50  
I don't have a Super M, but I thought all had disk brakes--one of the selling points of the new model, although like yourself, most like bands better. My M parts book says that the M went to the Super M disk brakes at SN #294226. Last M made was 298218, or roughly 4000 with disks. The H/Super H was similar. What's your serial number? You must have one of the early ones, as IH did some weird things during changeover periods.

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CNKS

07-23-2003 18:47:12




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 Re: Super M vs M in reply to toot, 07-23-2003 11:25:43  
On a practical basis, buy the one in the best condition. If the Super M is a Stage 2 (live hydraulics, battery under the seat) it is worth a little more, if you need live hydraulics. If it is a stage 2, look carefully at the battery box, a lot of them are rotten from battery acid. As the others said, it is fairly easy to get Super M power out of an M. But, the Super M power can be increased above the max you can get out of an M, due to the larger displacement.

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Bill Perry

07-23-2003 18:17:49




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 Re: Super M vs M in reply to toot, 07-23-2003 11:25:43  
The Super M was advertised by IH as being a tractor that could plow more acres per hour than the M. It has a larger cubic inch displacement engine and faster gears in 1 thru 4, 5th gear is the same 15 mph. Read this as it was a 3-4 bottom plow tractor that was faster than the 3-4 bottom M Farmall which was one heck of a lugging pulling tractor. From a practical standpoint it could not pull any more load than the 52 or 53 M but it could pull it faster using the extra horsepower. There were at least 3 stages of Super M's as IH moved from M's to the Super M TA which became the IH 400. The 52 super M has the battery located under the gas tank. The early 53 moved the battery under the seat and changed the clutch housing getting ready for the TA. The last stage super M came with live hydraulics but not live PTo if I remember correctly. The Super M TA came with live Pto,and hydraulics. You can probably find and retrofit and M with most of these features using aftermarket parts M and W, but why do it when you can buy a Super M. If you change the engine to get the power you would also have to change the gears to get the speed, etc. It all depends on what you want to do. They are both wonderful tractors.

Bill

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Jim

07-23-2003 14:49:21




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 Re: Super M vs M in reply to toot, 07-23-2003 11:25:43  
The M can be overhauled with an overbore kit which makes the pistons 4 inch diameter. The Super M can be overhauled with an overbore kit which makes the pistons 4 1/8 inch diameter. Then there is a difference. 4 1/8 inch pistons can not be put in a M 248 block without accually boring the block which is expensive and risky. The Super M already has a 264 block. All this is provided everything is the original. Otherwise anything can happen.

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KX

07-23-2003 13:44:42




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 Re: Super M vs M in reply to toot, 07-23-2003 11:25:43  
Sure you could get equal power out of the M but horse power isn't the only difference in the M and SM. Search the archives for differences. There is great info there. Let us know which you buy and post a pic.



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JOHN CASE

07-23-2003 14:09:57




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 Re: Re: Super M vs M in reply to KX, 07-23-2003 13:44:42  
YOU CAN PUT A SUPER M SLEVE AND PISTON KIT IN A M MY UNCLE PUT ONE IN HIS IN THE 60S



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Jon

07-23-2003 13:10:47




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 Re: Super M vs M in reply to toot, 07-23-2003 11:25:43  
If the M has ever been overhauled, Its most certainly got the Super M thin sleeve (4") conversion kit in it.



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