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M Minimum Rear Wheel distance

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Bill Perry

07-08-2003 10:01:34




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What is the minimum out to out distance that you can get an M rear down to for hauling. I would assume you turn the center drive wheel with the dish to the inside and put the rim back on. Will the rim go on the inside of the driving wheel or the outside after turned? Tires are 12.4 on 38 inch x 11 inch rims. Is this a two man job or do you need some sort of hoist?

Thanks:




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The Dukester

07-11-2003 12:25:18




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 Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to Bill Perry, 07-08-2003 10:01:34  
My brother found a car hauler type trailer in the Kansas City area that is wide enough on the deck to allow a Farmall M to be loaded on it with the rear wheels dished out--with 13.6-38 tires. The aluminum fenders are meant to be removeable and you have to remove one of them(the left one to place the little offset of the load to the up/in side), then replace it after backing the tractor on. It's not a whole lot of trouble though and you can leave the rear tractor wheels turned the way most of them were when the tractor was used for farming. We place the tractor so the rear wheels are just ahead of the fenders and this makes the tongue weight about right for our trucks--95 F150 4WD and '77 F250 2WD. When I see a M at a show with the rear wheels dished in, it usually means it's a puller tractor or it gets loaded on a car hauler trailer that isn't wide enough for it if the wheels are dished out, or both. To me a midwestern type M show tractor should have it's wheels dished out. Anyhow, this trailer is a "PJ-Seminole" manufactured unit, 18 feet long, 83 inches wide, with a 4 foot dovetail and appears to be pretty well built. You gain about 6 inches width clearance, up to 89 inches, when removing both fenders, but we can load our M okay when just one fender is removed. The tractor is right at 85 1/2 inches wide. Someday we'll get a three axle flat deck gooseneck type we hope, until then, it's our little 7000 lb. car haulers I guess. We haul any extra weights in the pickup bed anyway. I hauled my John Deere #55 3-14 plow and our H Farmall tractor to the Wauseon show with this trailer okay, plow on first, then the H. It balanced out and towed fine.

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49 Cubber!

07-08-2003 17:24:21




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 Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to Bill Perry, 07-08-2003 10:01:34  
I haul my M on what is considerd a heavy duty car hauler,rated at 12000 pds,must be one heck of a car..... ..Anyways,I have the wheels dished in and about 2 or 3 inches from the end of each axle.It fits good.I dont think a regualr standard car hauler would hold up long,maybe for just a short one time trip.Let me put it this way,the reason I have a 12000 cap trailer now,is the car hauler trailer I had broke in half with an H on it.Not a very fun experience and Im lucky to still be here.

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Bill Perry

07-08-2003 21:46:23




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 Re: Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to 49 Cubber!, 07-08-2003 17:24:21  
Thanks for all the information by those who replied. I know an M weighs about 6000 lbs depending on wheel weights and what might be in the tires. I have a friend who has a heavy duty eqpt. trailer of the fenders type and we were discussing what width we could get the M down to. The tractor is about 60 miles away and I thought I would ask rather than run over there to measure and try to figure out what turning the wheels would gain us. Just guessing I am thinking about 5 inches per side. The tractor overall is at 89 inches now and 10 off that should get us on the trailer.

What is your experience with how difficult it is to turn those wheels around in a parking lot by hand. I will be taking one new rim and tire when we retrieve it, so half the work has to be done anyway.

Thanks: Bill Perry

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Hugh MacKay

07-09-2003 07:33:48




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 Re: Re: Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to Bill Perry, 07-08-2003 21:46:23  
Bill: My 300, 560 and 656 were all on 72" centers, which made them very close to flush with axles on outside, or 84". They all had 3" plus on each axle I could have moved them to make then about 78" to 80" on outside. Those tractors all had double bead rims, will depend on age of M whether you have the double bead rim. Shame to switch if you don't have to, I think you will like them much better dished out. I know my 300 with 13.6 tires could be made less than 78" outside with wheels dished out I had 16.9 on 560 and 656, probably closer to 80" with those.

I may have seemed a bit harsh on my earlier post. I have owned about 5 trailers in my lifetime, and never was happy with any of them until I had deck over wheels. Trailers with deck between wheels and wide enough for big tractors tend to be just too wide for country roads. I've never had it happen but I have seen a few broken trailers along the road. I saw one that broke with a Farmall A on it. I stopped to help him, there was not a casting on the A that wasn't broken from the tumble. It was a car hauler,rated for 4,000 lbs. Trailers even the big highway trailers get cracks in steel, and that has to be monitered very closly. Many many times I have come home with scarey looking cracks on trailer frame, and not from excessive loads. Having owned a single axle highway tractor and 40' equipment trailer along with all the others, my opinion, nothing over gross weight of 15,000lbs. should be allowed on highway today with out air brakes. The others were fine 40 years ago when no one else was on the road. I just have a 5,000 lb rated car hauler today but I never haul anything larger than my SA, 130 or 140. Its just wide enough for those tractors set on 52" centers 60" outside.

Just be careful, tractors with broken castings aren't much good, and flesh and bones even worse. Afterall an old guy like me has to keep you young fellows alive to chew the rag with about old iron. We need old knowledge, but even more important fresh ideas.

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Bill Perry

07-09-2003 19:36:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-09-2003 07:33:48  
Hugh: Enjoyed hearing from you and appreciate your information. I am 56, not exactly a young fellow. Sounds like you might have done some truck driving. Were you partial to the IH line? I can talk all day about IH trucks on another station.
I still am struggling with how to get the rims off in the city lot where this tractor is located. Picking them up and handling is what I am referring to. I believe I can handle the tire and outer rim. I am not sure how to handle the driving part of the rim and the wheel weight on it should I have to turn it around to haul it. Got any suggestions? I am thinking about a G-pole rigged up in the back of my truck. I just keep asking because someone has already figured this out and I have go smart enough to ask now rather than forge off into just doing it.

Bill

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Hugh MacKay

07-09-2003 21:06:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to Bill Perry, 07-09-2003 19:36:01  
Bill: I always had a single axle highway tractor on farm, never drove it much myself. GM and had 3 trailers lo boy, dump and hi deck. After my farming career a guy approached me to drive a truck. A worn out S line IH, DT 466, and loader for logs. After 3 months he asked if I was going to stay on after the spring thaw. We discussed future pay and I stayed. 3 weeks later he dropped in my yard one day in pickup, said come for a drive. We went to town, to a truck dealership,pulled up in front of this blue Western Star. He said look it over there is your new truck. 3306, 300 hp Cat, loaded 20,000 front axle and 46,000 rears. I drove that for 5 years. Since then I have driven Freightliners, Navistar, Peterbuilt, and last week I had one of the newer Mack for a run. My favourite is still the Western Star, but this Mack is hard on it's heels. The most power I ever had my hands on was the Peterbuilt 3406 Cat running 500 hp pulling Super B trains. Positivly the safest configuration of truck trailer on the highway, they handle nice, grossing 140,000 lbs they wiil stop in about the same distance as a car or pckup, and yes I did learn to back it off the street and into a garage bay at right angles to street. I was once on a two way traffic road, doing 50 mph, 140,000 lbs, a pickup pulled out in front of me, stopped, driver got out, traffic coming other way. I had to stop or ditch or hit someone. It stopped, I went back later and measured, it took 195 feet for me to stop on down grade. Prior to that I would have said it couldn't be done. That company with 35 trucks, most of them trains, had the very best maintainence program of anyone I ever drove for. Your brake shoes were measured with calipers every two weeks and recorded. GPS was standard equipment, dash mount cell with pa. and you were allowed to call the president of company 2am Sun, if no one else was available. Only one problem, after all that safety program and gadgets, they had no money left to pay drivers a good rate.

Enough trucking, lets get back to the M. The first item I would do is some quite serious measuring, you should be able to get to 78" outside. That failing I guess you will need to turn them. If you separate the tire and rim from cast center. Two men can turn the rest, by just sliding off the axle and turning. If your nervous separate the wheel weight. 30 years ago I was able to pick one of these centers, less the wheel weight, off the ground and put it on the axle of my 560. I cant do it anymore and probably shouldn't have then. The center only weighs about 300 lbs.

Send me an e mail we can talk more trucks.

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49 Cubber!

07-09-2003 02:52:55




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 Re: Re: Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to Bill Perry, 07-08-2003 21:46:23  
If your just wanting to get it on,and you have to take one rim off anyways and your ramp will allow it,just move one wheel in,or turn it around if you have to.Easier than doing both.Thats what Idid on mine when I bought it.It was a tight fit but it went on the trailer.



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Bill Perry

07-09-2003 19:26:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to 49 Cubber!, 07-09-2003 02:52:55  
Thanks Cubber that might be the plan. I have a 48 cub and love it. I was driving a Cub around 10 years old and eventually graduated to the M. Our farm tractors are long gone but replacements are out there. I am thinking about rigging up a G-Pole in the back of my truck to use to lift the driving part of the wheel. The wheel has one set of weights that I believe weighs about 150 lbs plus the driving part of the wheel must weight 250. More than I can manhandle. What do you think?

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Bud

07-08-2003 13:05:14




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 Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to Bill Perry, 07-08-2003 10:01:34  
I have no problems hauling my M on a 16 ft car carrier. The width inside the fenders is 82 inches which is pretty standard but they do make a trailer that is only 77 in so you better measure. You will need to set your wheels so they bow out which means you may have to switch them side to side in order to have the tread going the correct direction.

My tractor had sat for over 30 years and I had no problem sliding them on the axles. There is a lot of slop once you loosen all four bolts. I would not try to remove them from the axle with less than three people. There heavy even without weights or ballast.Its not hard just take your time and be sure you have the tractor secured so it can't fall off the blocks.

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Hugh MacKay

07-08-2003 11:32:41




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 Re: M Minimum Rear Wheel distance in reply to Bill Perry, 07-08-2003 10:01:34  
Bill: the axles are 84" end to end, you can get down to that without changing the wheels. That is fine for a flat deck truck or trailer anyway. If your trying to get it on a car hauler it's not safe anyway. Plus, if those wheels have been on there a few years your going to need heat to loosen them. I used to have a 8' flat deck trailer and many times I have hauled Farmalls set on 84" centers. I hauled a combine half way across the country with half of each tire over the edge, and yes completely safe and legal. If you are planning to haul an M on a car hauler you'll be neither.

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