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Muffler back pressure question

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KX

06-24-2003 20:12:33




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After reading and thinking about a recent post.....what could be the harm on a free flowing exhaust? Do you "NEED" the back pressure on the exhaust valves (GAS AND DIESEL), are you harming your engine by running mufflers with the baffles punched out, by runnihg straight pipes????? You see pullers running straight pipes often. I run straight pipes on LP tractors to keep from trapping the heat and burning the hood off them. Anyone that can advise? THANKS.

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Bob Kerr

07-01-2003 23:12:37




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 Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to KX, 06-24-2003 20:12:33  
Steve-IN is exactly right! I just read an article on the hooker header website about this subject and he nailed it right on! lower back pressure (straight pipe or tuned straight pipe), lowers the low end torque and increases high rpm horsepower. Better grab some ear plugs though!



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Fred KS

06-25-2003 10:48:02




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 Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to KX, 06-24-2003 20:12:33  
One technique I've read about, mainly by the folks with pulling tractors, is to paint the exhaust pipe and then use the tractor until the paint burns off. Your pipe should end with the bottom part still bearing paint and the top portion scorched or burnt. They then cut the pipe off at the painted/scorched line to achive the proper back pressue.

I have no experience in doing this. Just read about it.

Regards,
Fred KS

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Hugh MacKay

06-25-2003 19:29:59




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 Re: Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to Fred KS, 06-25-2003 10:48:02  
Fred: If you are right and I am not disagreeing with you. I should cut the muflers I buy for my Farmall 130 from CaseIH about half way up the large part of mufler as it burns them right off there in about 18 months. I put a 33" straight pipe that just fits the exhaust pipe and it will last forever. Well 15 years. The 33" pipe is almost as quiet as mufler. I can use those muflers on my Super A or 140 with no problem.

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Dr.EVIL

06-25-2003 12:39:25




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 Re: Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to Fred KS, 06-25-2003 10:48:02  
Actually that supposedly gives You the proper "Tuned Length" which is substantially different than Back Pressure.



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Steve - IN

06-24-2003 21:39:03




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 Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to KX, 06-24-2003 20:12:33  
KX,
There are no hard and fast rules about how much -- if any --back pressure an engine needs, but like most things in engines, it's a series of trade-offs.

Most cams create some valve overlap. That is, the exhaust is just closing while the intake is opening. Creating a bit of a low pressure area on the exhaust side with less backpressure will help suck in more mixture on the intake side, making a bigger explosion next time around --BUT as RPM's increase and backpressure stays the same, there's less time to do that, so more of the burnt stuff stays around for the next explosion. If you reduce backpressure - that's the equivalent to increasing valve overlap, like a longer duration cam, making the engine happier at higher RPM's. If you increase backpressure, you've effectively decreased valve overlap and the engine is happier at lower RPM's.

Here's more trickery -- you can change effective backpressure by making the intake velocity greater or lesser. You've seen velocity stacks on carb intakes, or those block risers bolted between carbs and manifolds, and high rise manifolds -- that's what they do. In other words, the faster the air comes in, the faster it has to go out, or hit a wall created by backpressure. Of course, you can change your whole setup by getting the head ported to the nth degree; which requires you to rethink and re-do the intake and exhaust diameters and velocities. See, -- trade-offs.

The basic results of all the above are: More backpressure shifts the torque peak down lower in the RPM range and tilts the torque curve to the lower end. Less backpressure shifts the torque peak upward in RPM, tilts the torque curve upward in RPM like a seesaw, also can lessen peak torque, but adds horsepower at the higher RPM range. Mufflers are to reduce noise. If you really want to tune the exhaust, i.e. it's backpressure against a fixed volume and velocity of input on the intake side and head ports; the way to do it is by varying the diameter and the length of the header pipe tubes (not a cast manifold) and the length of pipe that's between the head and the juncture of the individual pipes - or no juncture at all; like zoomie pipes on dragsters for better low end torque. Punching holes in mufflers or straight pipes on a cast manifold makes small changes compared to what you can get by varying the diameter and length to juncture of tubular headers.

The practical bent of all the above is that if you're not racing, or pulling, but simply using the cast manifold on your tractor with a stock intake and head port job -- replacing the muffler with a straight pipe will slightly increase high RPM horsepower at the expense of low end torque. In my experience it's not pressure or the lack of it kills exhaust valves -- it's heat. You vary the heat by changing the mixture and timing. But that's a whole 'nother story.

Ask me all this in person and I'll say: "Huh, what"? That's because I spent many of my younger years setting max advance on a mid engine race car at 4500 to 5000 RPM at the flywheel -- which was real close to where the straight pipe exhaust dumped out. It was real "trick" to learn we could and should change the header to match the track (tight tracks - more torque, longer tracks - more HP), then change the gear ratios to match the changes in torque and HP peaks the header had shifted -- but never did we see an engine blow up 'cause of lack of back pressure. The big downside to less backpressure, more noise, is irritating people by saying "what?" all the time. All this may be more than you might have wanted to hear, but the important thing is to hear, so whatever you do; wear some hearing protection.

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KX

06-25-2003 08:31:26




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 Re: Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to Steve - IN, 06-24-2003 21:39:03  
Steve, I appreciate your reply. I am gonna print and try to digest every bit of this. You don't think of all these aspects just jamming a stock engine back together under the shade tree.



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Steve - IN

06-25-2003 21:17:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to KX, 06-25-2003 08:31:26  
KX,
You're welcome. The guys who designed your stock engine did all the worrying for you. Generally within the bounds of time, technology, and costs - they got it right. The proof of that is that there are so many guys with old tractor engines still running.

The thing to remember when you start modifying is that one thing usually calls for another. For example, if you rigged up some whiz bang ultra efficient exhaust system for your tractor (and didn't touch the head, cam, intake side) you could have a setup where - at up to 3/4 throttle - the exhaust scavenging was pulling lots of fresh fuel air mixture right through and out the exhaust. You'd have a big fuel guzzler that was only happy wide open, and not too practical for daily chores around the farm.

We used to build up 4 cyl. blocks that left the foundry thinkin' they'd live in some nice little econo-box car, and we'd throw DOHC heads on them with Weber carbs and light rods, pistons, dykes rings, etc. with loose clearances all around then give them 180mph thrill rides with 2G turns. Fun stuff, but I also respect the fact that my >50 yr. old tractors can make huge amounts of torque at barely turning over RPM levels. By comparison a race engines would gurggle and sputter until it got to 3500 RPM.

Have fun with your shade tree wrench turning.

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Steven@nd

06-24-2003 21:22:28




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 Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to KX, 06-24-2003 20:12:33  
Any kind of backpressure is bad, what you need for torque (horsepower too because hp is a function of torque) is VELOCITY. Smaller pipes will have a greater velocity, increasing torque. Velocity creates a scavenging effect, sucking the exhaust out of the next cylinder to fire (instead of exhaust being pushed out by the piston).



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FarmallBailey

06-24-2003 20:35:11




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 Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to KX, 06-24-2003 20:12:33  
My 1950 Super A has nothing but a straight pipe (if you can call it that, it doesn't do much in the way of piping exhaust cause its so rusted through). Been this way for probably 30 years. No problems from it that I can tell, course theres no before/after comparison for me to give you.



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CNKS

06-24-2003 20:24:51




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 Re: Muffler back pressure question in reply to KX, 06-24-2003 20:12:33  
I'm going to speak only about the letter series, which, I think have straight thru mufflers with holes, not baffles, in the center pipe. Many people run these with no mufflers, just a pipe, which probably does no harm to the valves? but a lot of damage to your hearing. (Signed) Deafer Than A Post.



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