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H needs a little help......

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Bob

06-21-2003 06:23:57




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Hi everyone,
I need some expert advice, because Mr. Goodwrench I am not. Here goes, just bought another H (now we've got 2!), drove it home and everything was a-ok. Shut it down and went to restart ....nothing. It rolled a couple of times and went dead. On looking it over the guy I bought it from had installed a new battery, but had it hooked up backwards (should the tractor have even started that way???). I tried recharging the battery, but it was no good. I went and got a new battery and still nothing. When I hooked up the new battery and pulled the switch to start I noticed the ammeter reading that the battery was charging. Is this normal? Any help'd be appreciated as it's soon time to start mowing.....

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F20II

06-21-2003 09:16:17




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 Re: H needs a little help...... in reply to Bob, 06-21-2003 06:23:57  
Make sure that all connections are clean, like the other fellow said 6v systems are postive grounds, make sure that the cables going from the starter to the switch are ok. Clean all the cable ends real good, pull of the ground cable clean that end. The answer to the other question is if the battery is low you will show charge, if the lights are on the battery meter will show charge an if you have a short it will also so charge. Remember you have on most farmall H's four postion switch which is Low, high charge, light low and high, make sure that these connections inside the box on the back of the switch are clean as well. Hope this helps only my 3 cents :o)

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Bob

06-21-2003 10:46:00




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 Re: Re: H needs a little help...... in reply to F20II, 06-21-2003 09:16:17  
Wow. Thanks to everyone so far. Ok. A little more information. It is a 1948 H with a 6 volt system, coil ignition, and an alternator. Wires seem ok, though I haven't pulled the cover off the "light switch" to check in there. It acts like a short circuit (it's been incredibly damp here lately, and it started drizzling while I was driving it home). The battery that was on the tractor gives me voltage (6.44 v was the reading I got) but won't take a charge and seems pretty dead. Unfortunately the new battery is a 12 volt. I didn't realize that at the time I bought it. Have to take it back Monday. The other H is a 44 with a Mag and the alternator has been removed. That we run with a 12 volt neg ground no problem (as far as I know it has never been converted). I tried turning the 12 volt around, and the ammeter DID read discharge (again with nothing other than the "ignition switch" turned on).

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Ken

06-21-2003 20:31:08




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 Re: Re: Re: H needs a little help...... in reply to Bob, 06-21-2003 10:46:00  
Bob it sounds like you have a generator, not an alternator if it had a 6 volt battery. As far as I know in my 60+ years I have never seen a 6 volt alternator. When alternators first came on cars and tractors in the early 1960's, all cars, trucks and tractors had 12 volt batterys, which were negative ground, by that time. Your H had a 6 volt, positive ground battery and GERERATOR. I changed my H to a 12 volt alternator from a 1987 chevy and replaced the hand push button and swithch with a key switch and solenoid. (Because of playful grandchildren, I can remove the key) It's the best starting tractor I have ever seen! If you need more info on changing your H to 12 volts, let me know and I will e-mail you all the info you will need.

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Steve - IN

06-21-2003 13:12:15




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 Re: Re: Re: H needs a little help...... in reply to Bob, 06-21-2003 10:46:00  
Bob,
It looks like you might be at a point where your first decision is whether to make it a 6V or a 12 V system. As your other tractor started life as a 6 but now is 12, it might make sense to have two 12V system tractors. Other guys like me keep 'em oringinal with 6V systems, but then I'm just an old crank.

If you keep it 12 - the cheap 6 to 8 gauge battery cables with will work. Don't run the starter too long as Ludwig said, also take it out, run the starter, then reinstall it like miles said. Clean up all the terminals and check to see if you shouldn't replace some or all of those 3 cables. You might run the ground to a bolt holding the starter, as that gives less resistance to ground. Might be a good time to get a replacement starter switch, too. With 12V, you'll need to install a 1.8 ohm ballast resistor on the power line to the coil as it is probably designed to eat 6 volts and will get hot and unhappy if you feed it a diet of 12 volts (but check the coil - either by what's written on the coil or by measuring the resistance between the two primary terminals). Just to be tidy, the + side will come from the ignition and the - side to the distributor if you're 12V neg ground.

There's a dead short on a wire or a blown diode in the alternator, or a fritzed regulator causing that leakage you're seeing on the ammeter. For the wiring loom, you're gonna need a mulimeter to check that, and as you don't wanna be Mr. Goodwrench, pull the alternator and take it to a shop. Have them check it as to whether it's setup for 6 or 12 V operation (assuming it's internally regulated, if not, haul in the external regulator with the alt). Also, if you want lights, they'll need to be 12V bulbs; and if you run 12V neg, you'll need to swap the wires on the back of the ammeter or learn that + means - and vice versa.

If you keep it 6V pos gnd -- You'll need the big, fat 0 gauge cables to make it happy with the 6V batt you got or the one you exchange at the store. The alt or alt plus regulator will still need to go to the shop if you want to make the system charge. You'll still also have to troubleshoot for a wire loom short if the alt tests 6V pos gnd and working OK.

Either way you decide - in the meantime with the charge system off, the coil draws 4 amps or less. With a 50ah battery (which either the 12 or the 6 should come close to) you can run the H for 10 hours plus 4 or 5 starts before you'll need to recharge from an external charger. That should let you get your mowing done as long as you don't use lights.

There are 6 and 12 V alternators, and you could conceivably have one in pos or neg ground setup. Odds are it's a 12 V neg gnd alt, but who knows, as there are outfits that change the internal regulator circuits to taste, and yours had a 6V batt. If you want to mess with the alt yourself post back with some identifying info on the alt like Motorola or Delco 10, etc. and somebody can probably set you on the right track.

Other than all that -- good luck. As I only have one H, I'm already jealous.

Steve

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Ludwig

06-21-2003 11:36:07




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 Re: Re: Re: H needs a little help...... in reply to Bob, 06-21-2003 10:46:00  
Alternator?

You could use 12v either ground with a mag system and no charging system, the tractor won't care, just don't run the starter a whole lot.
If your new tractor has been run any amount with the 6v battery in backwards its likely burnt the regulator, been there, done that.
6.44 isn't enough voltage to start, as you know. Sometimes when a 6v battery won't take charge I'll tap one of the charger clamps against the battery to make a little spark, had some take charge after that.
With that voltage you probably don't have a dead/reversed cell, maybe get a 6v power adapter like you'd use for a set of speakers or something, figure a way to adapt the little round plug to the battery and leave it on for day or so. Lots of times those little low amp chargers will recover a battery and give it a good deep charge. I've got some old 10ah camcorder batteries going through that treatment now. Also make sure your battery is full of acid, add distilled water as need.
You can also start the tractor with a little yank, it'll run even if the battery is pretty poor, heck you could probably wire up a 6v camcorder battery to run the tractor on as long as you don't need to start it or use the lights.

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miles

06-21-2003 11:53:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: H needs a little help...... in reply to Ludwig, 06-21-2003 11:36:07  
You might need to take the starter lose and try to start it then put the starter back in and try it.



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Bob

06-22-2003 16:52:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: H needs a little help...... in reply to miles, 06-21-2003 11:53:26  
Neat trick that. What exactly does it do??? I pulled the starter, and hit the button and got nothing, hit button again and sparks flew, hit it a third time and got the sweet noise of the starter spinning. Slapped it back together, hit the button, it rolled twice and away it went! While I was at it I pulled the cover off the light cover and cleaned all those contacts. Everything else seemed to be ok. The battery cables are about twice the size of standard auto cables with no obvious defects. I'm waiting on the 6 volt battery (I laid my hands on a trickle charger, and tapping the hot lead til it sparked seems to be nursing it back to life) to see if it is draining the battery while the engine is running. It was still showing a drain on the ammeter with the 12 volt battery and the engine running, though I assume since it is only a 6v generator it wouldn't fully charge a 12 volt battery. Will play some more with it tomorrow after work. Thanks to everyone for all the advice!

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Steve - IN

06-21-2003 09:15:49




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 Re: H needs a little help...... in reply to Bob, 06-21-2003 06:23:57  
Bob,
Agree on everything Kelly C said, but notice you get a + ammeter reading from just flipping the switch without running, no lights, etc?. Assuming this is a stock 6V set up, and you had it installed as negative ground -- then the cutout relay or voltage regulator is stuck or something is shorted so it will always drain the battery.

For a quick fix, I'd disconnect the charging circuit, just remove the two wires from the generator and tape them off, and also disconnect one terminal of the battery when not in use. Then charge the battery from an external charger. That will get you through mowing hay without constantly draining the battery.

For some more exact help and a real fix, you'd do well to post back with more info: generator or alternator, 6 or 12 volt system, mag or coil/dist. ignition - and so on. H's came with mags or coils, regulator or cutout versions and many have been converted to 12 volt positive ground systems along the way. So at this point, nobody can give you exact help without more info on what kind of setup you have.

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Kelly C

06-21-2003 07:34:15




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 Re: H needs a little help...... in reply to Bob, 06-21-2003 06:23:57  
If this is a 6 volt system it should be a possitive ground. Also check the wires. That was this 1st thing that went on my H. You need real good wires for a 6 volt. Not those thin 12 volt wire ether. they need to be big thick wires.
I got some real nice big wires from fleet farm for $7.00.



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