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Super C motor oil

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John

06-17-2003 13:42:32




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I'm getting a number of opinions on motor oil for my Super C. What weight do I need? And detergent or non-detergent?




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Doug in OR

06-18-2003 16:45:11




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  
As you can see, the consensus is to use a multi-weight detergent oil. If you think you will have sludge problems, start with a cheaper oil - changing it often. Eventually you can move up to a higher quality brand.

Personally, I'd go with the lighter oil. If you have excessive consumption problems, move to a thicker viscosity - one range at a time.



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John again

06-18-2003 12:40:51




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  
I really appreciate all the comments.
It appears there are still a number of opinions.
I'm seeing a lot of 5W-30 or 30W oils.
..
Either way, mine needs changed.
Thanks again.



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John again

06-18-2003 12:36:02




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  
I really appreciate all the comments.
It appears there are still a number of opinions.
I'm seeing a lot of 5W-30 or 30W oils.
..
Either way, mine needs changed.
Thanks again.



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bill b va

06-18-2003 02:09:14




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  

john i am sure you have heard of old wives tales now you have the old farts tales . ask a god mechanic you trust .



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Hugh MacKay

06-18-2003 11:13:42




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 Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to bill b va, 06-18-2003 02:09:14  
Bill: OLD FARTS are we, I guess likely I've clocked as many hours on old Farmalls as most people on here. I can also tell you I have never done a mojor rebuild on a diesel under 10,000 hours and gas probably 4,000 hours. That is done by precicely knowing how to care for and service an engine. Very few mechanics ever get to do that, they just repair them when needed. I probably have 75,000 hours of tractor care under my belt. Don't you be coming on here calling anyone old farts, unless its a self description.

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CNKS

06-17-2003 18:43:23




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  
Warm climate, straight 30 weight. Cooler climate, 15W-40. Clean pan as others have said, you might also pull the rocker cover, then use detergent oil. In warm weather 10W-30 will be a little light, as the older engines are not built as tight as the newer ones.



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49 Cubber!

06-17-2003 18:21:28




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  
I am by no means an expert on the subject,but Ill tell ya what I do.I have 10-30 in all my tractors.The ydont get run that much in the winter,heck a couple of them dont get run much at all no matter what season.The only thing I think that really matters is that you change it regularly and you use the same thing that youve been using.If you have just got the tractor and dont know what the previuos owner did,them by all means,and for the safety of your engine,drop the pan.IF its not all sludged up,go with the detergent oil.

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RayP(MI)

06-17-2003 17:30:39




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  
You really should consider removing oil pan, cleaning out dirt which has undoubtly accumulated there, and check oil pump intake screen while you're in there. Then go with your choice of oil, changing regularly, and filter too. I use 40 weight (detergent)in mine in hot weather, as there's quite a bit of blow-by as evidenced by oil on hood around crankcase breather.



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Hugh MacKay

06-17-2003 15:08:02




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  
John: A number of years a guy asked me to help him with a C-123 he knew was full of dirt and crud. We filled it with detergent 15 - 40, worked it hard for about three days. Proceeded to drain the oil as we were going to do another oil change. Took the plug and nothing came out. Removed the pan as we didn't want to disturb what was on bottom. After removal of pan we discovered from 3/4 to 1" of hard sludge in bottom of pan so solid it had stopped pan from draining. You may as well get rid of the crud quickly. That was 15 years ago and engine is still puring with detergent oil.

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JP

06-17-2003 15:07:04




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  
Donot pay the money for a multi weight oil. Put in a good 30 weight and you will be fine. the additives in multiweight oils break down over time and you tend to end up with the thinner weight number.



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Doug in OR

06-17-2003 17:16:07




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 Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to JP, 06-17-2003 15:07:04  
When it is too cold, you get poor oil circulation with that straight 30 oil. You fail to understand that they have made tremenduous strides in oil in the past 30 years. Let me ask.. do you use straight weight oil in your new car? If you do, let me know when you trade it in - I'd want nothing to do with possibly purchasing it from a used car lot.

Do you recall the oil ad that states that 80% of your engine wear happens when the engine is cold? This ad is true.. and it is mostly due to oil circulation. I'd even go one better, I would prefer to use 5W-30 synthetic.

Oh, I will vote for using straight weight oil in my oil bath air cleaner.

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Steve - IN

06-17-2003 21:53:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to Doug in OR, 06-17-2003 17:16:07  
Doug,
I think we've had this discussion before -- maybe a year or two ago. I basically agree with you.

I've used synthetics since ~1975 for some engines. On race engines, they run 20 to 30 degrees cooler on an oil temp gauge, and they do dyno slightly better. The amazing part is when you tear down an racing engine that's used synthetics from the get go and see the bearings -- they look like you just installed them.

I use synthetics in 4 of my 5 tractors. The fifth one is the rub, I need to do a rebuild on it, and it would just burn off that nice expensive synthetic oil. So in the meantime, I'm using straight 30W and now 40W as it's gotten warm. You're absolutely right about cold starts -- but there is a trick known to lots of guys who went to flight school 30 or more years ago on piston engines. Leave the switch off - pull through the engine -- manually or with the starter, until oil pressure builds. Then go switch on. That mostly eliminates any cold start problem. If I use this engine when it's cold; then I'd use a 10w-40. 'Til then I get to turn it through then yell clear when I switch on.

Guys who went to flight school less than 30 years ago quickly went into turbines and synthetics. There's nothing better for standing up to cold starts and also outrageous temps and revs. Next time this discussion comes up - maybe we should ask if someone would use 30W in an engine that turns >60,000 RPM at 20 below zero. If the answer is no - somebody has learned to appreciate synthetics.

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Steve - IN

06-17-2003 21:46:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to Doug in OR, 06-17-2003 17:16:07  
Doug,
I think we've had this discussion before -- maybe a year or two ago. I basically agree with you.

I've used synthetics since ~1975 for some engines. On race engines, they run 20 to 30 degrees cooler on an oil temp gauge, and they do dyno slightly better. The amazing part is when you tear down an racing engine that's used synthetics from the get go and see the bearings -- they look like you just installed them.

I use synthetics in 4 of my 5 tractors. The fifth one is the rub, I need to do a rebuild on it, and it would just burn off that nice expensive synthetic oil. So in the meantime, I'm using straight 30W and now 40W as it's gotten warm. You're absolutely right about cold starts -- but there is a trick known to lots of guys who went to flight school 30 or more years ago on piston engines. Leave the switch off - pull through the engine -- manually or with the starter, until oil pressure builds. Then go switch on. That mostly eliminates any cold start problem. If I use this engine when it's cold; then I'd use a 10w-40. 'Til then I get to turn it through then yell clear when I switch on.

Guys who went to flight school less than 30 years ago quickly went into turbines and synthetics. There's nothing better for standing up to cold starts and also outrageous temps and revs. Next time this discussion comes up - maybe we should ask if someone would use 30W in an engine that turns >60,000 RPM at 20 below zero. If the answer is no - somebody has learned to appreciate synthetics.

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NDS

06-17-2003 17:59:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to Doug in OR, 06-17-2003 17:16:07  
Doug I do not really disagree with you on multi weight oil that is what I use now. However I had a 1977 GMC pickup that ran 250,OOO miles on SAE 30 with no engine work. Also clearances on 50 year old tractor engines are quite different than on modern low mileage engines.



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Dennis

06-17-2003 18:33:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to NDS, 06-17-2003 17:59:43  
I've got a '95 Lumina with 240,000 miles on it. Never used anything but Castrol 10W30. It uses no oil, never had engine work done and starts and runs like a new one. I vote for the multigrade. Every tractor I own from the CIH MX 240 to the AC B, 8 total, has multigrade oil in them. By the way detergent oils will not remove built up sludge. This is a popular mis-conception. They merely keep contaminants in suspension until changed. They should be called suspension oils rather than detergent oils.

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Hugh MacKay

06-18-2003 10:59:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to Dennis, 06-17-2003 18:33:34  
Dennis: It sure didn't keep it suspended in the C-123 engine I dealt with. We had the pan off before we added the detergent oil and it was clean going back on. Two days later it had 1" of sludge in bottom of pan. We know where it came from, we could clearly see from beginning tractor engine was very dirty. I am quite frankly surprised the engine has never needed a rebuild as that was 15 years ago and tractor probably gets about 250 hours per year of quite heavy use. Lets hear an explanation on that one.

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Ben in KY

06-18-2003 12:17:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to Hugh MacKay, 06-18-2003 10:59:49  
Yep, the detergent oils definatly clean em out. My 2444 manual says to use either multigrade or thin down 30W with kerosene in the winter. Don't like the Kerosene thing so I use 30W in the summer and multigrade in cooler weather. I use the same brand so that I am not getting any different bases mixed.



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Hoosierbuddy

06-17-2003 21:24:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to Dennis, 06-17-2003 18:33:34  
Amen Dennis!!!
You are my Hero!!
HB



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Al

06-17-2003 17:47:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to Doug in OR, 06-17-2003 17:16:07  
Every mechanic I have ever talked to that has been around IH gas engines say to stick to a straight wt. oil, usually 30 wt. depending on climate. In fact, IH said to use only their "Low Ash" engine oil. Our Super A ran on an overhaul in 1961 until 2001 on 30 wt, usually Phillips 66, and never had an oil related problem. I don't know enough about it to discuss it intelligently, but I think that tractor engines tend to have different oil requirements than auto engines anyway.

As to no/high detergent, once things were cleaned up I would definately use the detergent oil.

Al

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Hugh MacKay

06-17-2003 17:46:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Super C motor oil in reply to Doug in OR, 06-17-2003 17:16:07  
Well said Doug.



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Doug in OR

06-17-2003 13:53:53




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 Re: Super C motor oil in reply to John, 06-17-2003 13:42:32  
And you are about to get another opinion - mine. [smile] ... Just go with any name-brand 10W-30 HD motor oil. If you have reason to believe that your engine is clogged with crud, you might want to stick with a non-detergent oil. In the end, I would eventually switch to detergent oil anyway - just keep changing the oil and filter often, until the sludge is cleaned out.



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