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Funky serial #'s on M's

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 21:30:27

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Got a question guys. Where in the heck besides the data plate can I find the serial number on a M?????

I've been tearing into the two M's that I bought and I'm getting ready to start rebuilding the engines and can't find the serial number on one and the other has some other odd numbers?

First my old one which I believe is untouched. It still has 3 7/8" bores and has the old style seat as well as a cas iron shift knob. I cleaned the side of the bellhousing and there looks to be no place where a data plate would have been, no rivet holes, nothing. The number on the right side of the transmission housing is 8002-DD 2-2N but I suspect this to be a part number and not a serial.

The second one is newer and has probably been rebuilt unless they originally came with 4" bores. It has the new seat and a data plate with these markings:
MCH FBK 158356 X20A

What the heck is the CH and X20A for?

Here are some pics. the older one is on the left (w/sheetmetal) and the newer one is on the right (w/engine out).

Please let me know what you think. If there is somewhere I can find a serial number on the old one them let me know.

Also when I go to order a rebuild kit from here will the serial numbers make any difference? I would like to upgrade these to super M's if possible and go with the 4" bores and stepped pistons (both have flat tops now)....or is it even worth doing this?????

You might have to copy these to your address bar to view because for some reason I can't post active links?

Link

Old one by itself.

Link

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/EZFEED/My%20vehicles/1stM002.jpg

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CHIEFEAVES

06-19-2007 13:27:44

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 21:30:27

MY 39 "M" HAS IDENTICAL NUMBERS ON THE PLATE AND MOTOR.

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Larry in Mo

06-17-2007 16:54:57

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 21:30:27

You can also find the serial number stamped on top of the engine rail, right side to the rear of the radiator. LE

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Bob Kerr

06-16-2007 22:00:28

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 21:30:27

Look for a pad with stamped numbers on the engine block, if things wen't changed around like blocks changed the engine numbers usually match the serial numbers. The serial number plate will tell about the differences in options like the low low gear Georgeky told about, but the engine number won't. At least you can figure out the year it was made.

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georgeky

06-16-2007 22:14:39

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Bob Kerr, 06-16-2007 22:00:28

Bob, does the number on M engines match the serial number? I was under the impression that was true only on the smaller tractor's.

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Bob Kerr

06-16-2007 22:46:22

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to georgeky, 06-16-2007 22:14:39

I will have to look at my M again, but it is 40 miles away at Dads woods. I didn't look too close on it but it seems they did now that I am thinking about it.I think most of them will match, The ones on my ol 10-20 did, most of the F series did, my parts 10-20s did. I haven't looked at my H yet because the numbers are buried under paint and to look I would have to scrape the paint off. Usually if they don't match it is because an engine was swapped out. The engines on my parts 10-20s were swapped out but I bought both tractors so I have the right engines for both, just have to swap them back. I got lucky because there were 5 10-20s at that auction and I got the 2 that had had the engines swapped. I didn't notice it till I got them home.

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georgeky

06-16-2007 22:59:37

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Bob Kerr, 06-16-2007 22:46:22

Well Bob, I went and checked and my numbers do not match. They are off by about 10,000. I do know for sure that it is the engine that came with the tractor when new. The numbers do match on all of my smaller ones. I will check the other M and the H tomorrow.

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Bob Kerr

06-17-2007 18:51:35

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to georgeky, 06-16-2007 22:59:37

Hi George, I checked my 51 H today and it does match. I am curious about My 48 M now.

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georgeky

06-17-2007 19:12:46

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Bob Kerr, 06-17-2007 18:51:35

Bob, I checked my 44 H and the numbers match on it. My 48 M is at the other place, I will check it in a day or two. Tried to check my 450D, but couldn't see it for the generator.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 23:03:58

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to georgeky, 06-16-2007 22:59:37

Might just be how they are numbered too? I run across allot of things that don't have consecutive serial numbers. Could the engine have been made at another plant and installed in your tractor at another?

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georgeky

06-16-2007 23:11:41

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 23:03:58

I don't really know. I went and checked my 400 and it don't even have a number on the block. I do believe that the larger tractors such as the H and M will not have matcing numbers. Maybe Guy Fay or someone else will know for sure.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 22:55:00

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Bob Kerr, 06-16-2007 22:46:22

I'll be sure to report back on mine as well. I'm having each block hot tanked so they'll be clean. gonna bring this newer one tommorrow for its bubbly bath.

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georgeky

06-16-2007 22:54:53

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Bob Kerr, 06-16-2007 22:46:22

My 1950 M that dad gave me is in the front yard. It has the original everything on it. I am going right now to see if the numbers match on it.

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georgeky

06-16-2007 21:41:19

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 21:30:27

Patrick the number you gave is for a cotton picker. The X20A is for a cotton picker with low speed gear in it. As for the other I don't think the serial number will be found without that tag. Both can be taken to 264 CI same as the Super. The lits will not be to much different in price. Oh the CH means cotton harvester.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 21:47:36

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to georgeky, 06-16-2007 21:41:19

Can a tractor be a cotton harvester? Is that what the side belt drum is for????? why in the heck would IH designate a tractor for cotton harvesting?????

I was thinking maybe corn husker or some odd thing like that. Makes sense though as a cotton harvester since I got them both from Mississippi in a high cotton producing area.

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georgeky

06-16-2007 21:56:07

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 21:47:36

Yes this is the first cotton pickers. It should have drop axles on it unless they have been changed. There was a kit for them to convert them to a field tractor. If you look I think you can find a picture of one on the net maybe even in tractor photo's. I have a picture of one but no way to post it. Someone had a picture of one here on the forum not to long ago, you might try searching the forum archives. Cotton harvesters were also made for H's and Super C's. I also think someone mentioned an experimental model for the B.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 22:00:23

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to georgeky, 06-16-2007 21:56:07

Do you mean like final drives for the rear kinda like a MV?
Mine don't have these?????

Let me try and post pics.....

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georgeky

06-16-2007 22:22:47

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 22:00:23

Looks like a lot of empty bottles already on this project.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 22:28:28

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to georgeky, 06-16-2007 22:22:47

HAAHAAAA! I really don't know why I keep them. Sometimes I get creative and heat them with my torch and blow them into different shapes or mugs or whatever. The new curvy Budweiser bottles make great hummingbird feeders.

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georgeky

06-16-2007 22:34:58

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 22:28:28

I had to give that Budweiser up over 20 years ago, started giving me headaches. Now a jar of KY bourbon is another matter.

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georgeky

06-16-2007 22:45:43

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 22:37:58

I use to drink hot German beer when I was stationed there in the army. They served it all hot over there.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 22:51:56

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to georgeky, 06-16-2007 22:45:43

I find it still tastes good hot though I do prefer it cold. I've got a small medical freezer that I won on a government auction and it chills them just to where they begin to ice up.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 22:11:10

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 22:00:23

Well that worked :)

The one with the sheetmetal is the old M with the cast iron shift knob and old seat. that's te one with no serial number. I just find it amazing that is is not stamped anywhere else?!?!

I see a comprehensive rebuild kit for the SM here with part number EOK1164-LCB for a 264 ci engine with stepped head pistons. Would I use this kit?

In the M section there are 2 kits offered one for late and one for early serial #'s and this is why I'm so preturbed right now as to which kit to buy for each. Visually there doesn't seem to be much different between the engines and even the camshafts seem to mike similar.

The early M seems to have had flat top pistons while the late had stepped and both of these are now offered with 4" overbore sleeves.

If I go from 248 to 264 will I have to swap cams out with a SM cam? It would seem that with the increased compression it might require a more aggresive cam?????

OR.....is the kit in the regular M section which offers stepped head pistons with 4" bore sleeves the rebuild kit to go with and is a factory style/aftermarket upgrade to SM specs?

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georgeky

06-16-2007 22:19:12

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 22:11:10

You will need a kit for the M the block is bored bigger in the Supers. They work fine with the cam you have. I have two a 48 and 50 one has M&W add-powr 4 inch oistons in it and the other has 4 inch IH Fire Craters in it. Both still have stock M cam and run great.

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georgeky

06-16-2007 22:05:57

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 22:00:23

Yes that is what I mean. Your tractor has had them changed to standard axles. The MV and CH use a different drop axle. One is gear driven and the other is chain driven, but look nearly alike. The CH should have a single wheel on the front, that has been changed as well. However this tractor could even have the wrong number on it as parts may have been gotton from a salvage CH.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 22:13:35

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to georgeky, 06-16-2007 22:05:57

AH I see! So this could possible be just a pieced together kind of machine. The paint seems consistent though but like you said, this would have just been a wheel conversion.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 22:15:37

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 22:13:35

Thanks Bob Kerr! I will look for that tommorrow. And thank you so much too Georgeky for all your help. I'm still having a hard time deciding which kits to get for these machines.

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Patrick Martin

06-16-2007 22:35:25

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Re: Funky serial #'s on M's in reply to Patrick Martin, 06-16-2007 22:15:37

So I should go with the 248 kits in the regular M section correct?

Which one (comprehensive) would you recommend? Do I need to get my serial numbers or would one kit (w/stepped head pistons and 4" bore sleeves) work?

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