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Diana JH

05-20-2007 18:07:28

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Hi again! Won't know until I get the cable fixed whether she will start or not. I am going to see if there is enough cable to repair it or what it might take to replace it with something off of something else, maybe go to tractor supply or something. I'll stop in at Case and see what they have to offer between that and the hose I need for the manifold.
Can't find one of those either, so if I can't get one, maybe I can use a flex hose of some sort. Case might have that too. I left a few messages in that last thread and not sure who read them but it is up to date on stuff.
Anywho...that heater manifold valve that is froze up. I am going to get some gel type grease to try to loosen up the whole mess. Maybe I can even back that screw out and find one around here to replace it. In any case, my question is, what does this thing do? I am afraid I am going to break it or something. I need to know what it does so I know how it is supposed to "act" once I get it freed up.
How would its being frozen up affect the motor running?
I am still not sure the manifold heater is working.
I see where the wire goes to it but don't even know what part it is! Remember, an electric blanket sounded like a much better idea to me on keeping the engine warm, Hugh!
If you all could explain, I would be very grateful.
It started raining, so playing is done for today.
A good time to get as much info as I can. In the mean time, I put a padlock on one of my cupboards in my garage and the one battery is safe and sound.
The other battery is dead and done for. I am hoping I can start her with just the one. Thanks for all of your help so far guys! You have no idea how much I appreciate it!
Diana

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Hugh MacKay

05-20-2007 20:40:47

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-20-2007 18:07:28

Diana: I've just finished reading this thread. This 350 diesel, and I'm sure you know this, is one of the few times IH went to an outside supplier for and engine. Until you strike a guy like George who has one most of us IH folk know very little about them. You'd probably get better info from Cockshutt or MH guys than IH guys that never had a 350 diesel. That Continental is forign to most of us. Every diesel tractor we were used to up to 350 days were gas starts. The ones that followed were all glow plug engines.

By the way I have folowed the other thread. I must confess I was quite surprised back when you sent the tractor out for wiring and other service. I could see sending it to have the chloride removed. At the time I felt you were quite capable of doing most of what needed to be done with the tractor. I could see you removing starter or generator and sending off for rebuild. However the wiring harness, items like air cleaner, switches, heat in manifold, etc. I felt at time that along with YT help you could have done most of it. Seems like you are about to do most of what you sent it out for anyhow.

These old tractors are economical as long as you can do most repairs yourself. Soon as you start sending them out for every repair, then you may as well be running new tractors. Shops are full of mechanics that have no respect for old machines. A lot of them would sooner destroy your tractor than fix it.

I would suggest you give Tom back the battery. All the years I've run dual battery systems, be they 6 volt in series or 12 volt parallel, I've never put a used battery alongside a new battery. If it was two 6 volt I always used the good left over battery in one of my 6 volt gas tractors. If it was two 12 volt wired parallel the left over good battery went to car or pickup.

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Diana JH

05-20-2007 21:06:30

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Re: new question in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-20-2007 20:40:47

Hi Hugh, You have no idea how many times I have wished this wasn't a diesel. When I was in school, I had finished my major and they had a diesel class that I wanted to take. The school wouldn't allow it because they said I was too small and couldn't handle the heads, block etc. Now THAT is discrimination, but it wasn't an issue back then. My dad had to raise a ruckus just to get me in to mechanics in the first place and didn't seem interested in fighting for me to take that class. At the time I was 4"10 and maybe 110 pounds. What irked me the most was that these scrawny guys who hadn't gotten their dose of testosterone yet couldn't handle the parts either! It took two to carry just about anything that wasn't a bolt! I had A's in all of my mechanics classes from small engine to auto and yet they wouldn't even let me try. Now here I am at 48 and I don't know much about diesel. I think two things played into the hiring of the loom etc. One was, it was about the time I went back to school and the second was that I had just had rotator cuff surgery. OK, there is a third reason...I was scared I would mess something up.
Some things are the same and somethings are different and I still don't know which are which. I still talk about glow plugs and I don't know why. Maybe I just like the sound of it. They do sound warm and fuzzy, ya know. I should have done it myself, I can see that now. Costly mistake. I am now wondering if I do in fact have replaced gas filters, etc. I am almost afraid to check it out.
As for the battery, for the time being, it is gonna stay locked up! I want to use it to turn the motor and see how things act and I want it available to do that. He had it in the spitfire and just like the camaro, I don't want to be anywhere near it to be taking a battery out when I need it.
My oldest needs a battery for his car and I might just save myself a few bucks and put it in there if I find I need two. I'm hoping once I get this thing going that the amp gauge works so I can see if I am getting a charge. I've been kind of wondering about that. Seemed like before it was losing the charge but that could have been because of the wiring. I am also concerned about the lower contacts on that regulator being so close, maybe even closed. Might have to get a new regulator (again).
Well Hugh, gotta getup early tomorrow. You sure do stay up late!
Say hi to the wife for me. :)
Diana

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Hugh MacKay

05-21-2007 03:42:36

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-20-2007 21:06:30

Diana: I was up later than normal last evening, I was having an argument with a racoon that seemed determined to hang in on our patio. It has concrete floor and walls thus a cannon was out of the question, plus couldn't see him once he was off the step. I got a couple of good wacks at him with a hardwood stick. I think a dish where Marg. feeds our cat was drawing him.

Last week he spent one night in my shop, pulling out old birds nests from last year. I had sealed the shop cracks good last year to keep out birds, cats, racoons, etc. A week ago I noticed mice in shop, thus left a small door open for cat. Of course the racoon took advantage of the open door, pulled all bird nest material down over tractors.

The last session I had with racoons, 3 of them climbed last power pole before house, being a transformer pole and knocked the power out about 10pm. Utility guy told me they were getting about one call per night with racoons and power poles.

Until the corn gets big enough the damn racoons are hungry. They spend the summer scrounging for food, until the corn cobs up. Ontario had a bounty on racoons at one time.

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georgeky

05-20-2007 20:51:40

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Re: new question in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-20-2007 20:40:47

Hugh, I think this guy that worked on it needs a good horse whipping. I would assume a rewiring meant replacing all old wires. Lots of these knotheads figure out of sight out of mind I guess. I done the same thing with my 666 last year. It was cold and my shop was full, so I let a guy in town put that piggy back pump in it and he charged me more for a rebuilt pump than a new one cost. I told him up front that I wanted a brand new pump in that tractor. He will never work on anything of mine again no matter how damn cold it gets. I have been spreading the word about him too. I figure what goes around comes around.The worst part is I knew better to start with.

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Diana JH

05-20-2007 19:04:09

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-20-2007 18:07:28

Hi,
I'm pretty sure we are talking about the same thing.
When trying to start it the last few times, it would begin turning over with gusto, but then it would just slow way down and then we couldn't get it running for a while without a lot of headache. It used to be it would crank and s-l-o-w-l-y get going and as it warmed it would run more smooth.
I have class starting tomorrow and if it goes smoothly, I'll get out and get the lube for it. Might even WD40 it tonight for good measure.

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georgeky

05-20-2007 19:08:20

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-20-2007 19:04:09

I suppose it was lucky to run at all with it froze up. When you get it freed and adjusted it will be like a different tractor. It may not even need adjusting, but it does need to move freely.

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Diana JH

05-20-2007 20:08:26

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Re: new question in reply to georgeky, 05-20-2007 19:08:20

George,
I went out to spray some WD on it and although you can see there is a place for a spring, there is no spring. I suppose it doesn't take any old spring, right?
I have a few odd springs around here but how would I know what to use?

Thanks!

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georgeky

05-20-2007 20:40:56

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-20-2007 20:08:26

Diana, I think you could probably find one to work. The one on mine is 2 inches long at rest and 7/16 in diameter. It is a fairly light duty spring. I will send you a picture of mine. It will be tomorrow before I can do that. No batteries in the camera right now. Or you can call Brad Marshall at 1-888-824-0544 and he will help with any parts you need. I don't see how it ran with all this going on with it, but I am confident that you will get it going.

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Diana JH

05-21-2007 15:45:32

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Re: new question in reply to georgeky, 05-20-2007 20:40:56

OK,
I got the adjusting screw out, which in itself is a miracle. I sprayed everything with every can of oil I had here. I'm down to just silicone now, so I'll have to go out tomorrow and get some more.
I believe I have a spring that will work for it. I do have the valve lever moving but it is very very stiff yet. I have a way to go with it.
In the mean time, two other issues here. I see a "butterfly" inside the intake manifold and my assumption is that when the valve lever moves, this butterfly should be moving too and it doesn't budge. Not one bit. The lever moves from top stop to bottom stop and the butterfly sits still and is super froze up in there.
Second issue is that the diagram shows a "front rod" and a turnbuckle with a nut on it. Neither exist on this tractor. You can sure see where they are supposed to be, but they aren't there.
If this rod, which appears to have the job of stopping the valve lever at counter clockwise were there, it shows it attached to this turnbuckle....and then where does it go? I have no idea.
Lastly, where the cable comes up for the manifold heater...what heater? How? It is attached to this intake manifold but how does it make heat?
Any help, once again would be appreciated greatly.

Diana

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georgeky

05-21-2007 18:57:00

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-21-2007 15:45:32

Hi Diana, You are right on the ball I see. You will be a regular 350 diesel mechanic by the time this is over. Never fear you are making progress. The butterfly should move with the lever and shaft. This will need fixing when you get the butterfly freed up. The rod should ride freely in a bracket attached to the manifold, right in front of the lever. I guess that is one of the stops you refer to. It just has a hole for the rod to run in and catches the butterfly lever. The heater consist of a coiled element kinda like one in a hot water heater. It can be removed through an opening behind the post that the wire hooks to. It will have a big nut screwed into the intake. I will send some pictures of all this. It will take a bit of time. Me and this computer are slow. The post that this mounts on may be a bit different than yours due to differences between utility and row crop. Let me know if and when you get them.

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Diana JH

05-21-2007 20:17:48

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Re: new question in reply to georgeky, 05-21-2007 18:57:00

George,
I'm really close to the idea that I am going to have to take this intake manifold off. I have a few different gasket materials here, but naturally, nothing high temp.
I have a diagram here in front of me and the air restrictor valve (butterfly)is just plain froze up in there. It is at an approximate 45* angle, so I can't get to the screws as solid as I would want if I were to try to take the butterfly off. Also, anyone here can tell ya what is gonna happen with those screws. They always head south. I have some angle screwdrivers but then I won't be able to put enough "umf" behind it and will strip the screw head. I'm really not understanding how it can be staying in one place while I am moving the lever (which, by the way is still extremely stiff).
I've been spraying and waiting and spraying and then tapping with a ball hammer to get that lever to move. I've been tapping (carefully, of course) the outside areas to try to loosen up the crud around it. The whole air restrictor assembly, for lack of a better word, needs to be taken apart and cleaned up with steel wool/ wire brush, etc. Even if I take the manifold off though, I have a feeling I am not going to get it apart.
I can see the small pin that would allow me to take the lever off, but it wouldn't solve the problem of getting the butterfly and shaft out.
If I could get the whole assembly out of there, I could clean it up and make it functional again (I think).
Any suggestions you want to throw at me for getting it apart? Am I missing something that aides in removal of the whole ball of wax?
Thanks!
Diana

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georgeky

05-21-2007 21:18:36

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-21-2007 20:17:48

Diana, I sent another email with some suggestions on this. I will make the part you are missing as I dought if it is available. I can copy mine so that it should fit right. If we have to I think I can make that butterfly shaft as well. I make and or cobble a lot of stuff around here in the poverty zone. I will see what can be had for this tomorrow and let you know what I find. In spite of what lots of folks think or say there are lots of parts available for these. They are a bit pricey though, but so are others too.

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CNKS

05-20-2007 18:58:29

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-20-2007 18:07:28

After reading George's post, if your tractor is a diesel, forget what I said.

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georgeky

05-20-2007 19:05:04

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Re: new question in reply to CNKS, 05-20-2007 18:58:29

CNKS, she has a 350 diesel utility.

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georgeky

05-20-2007 18:40:32

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-20-2007 18:07:28

Hi Diana, If I am following you that is the air restriction valve. It controls the air intake and makes your tractor idle smoothly. If you get it freed up we will worry about adjusting it then. It should have a adjusting screw with a lock nut on it and an attached spring to the lever. Is this what you are talking about?

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CNKS

05-20-2007 18:39:48

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Re: new question in reply to Diana JH, 05-20-2007 18:07:28

Manifold heat control valves circulate hot exhaust gas to near (not in) in intake mainfold to keep the engine running smooth when cold. When warm the valve (usually a flapper) closes and prevents most of the hot exhaust gas away. Yours is probably stuck open, meaning it will get the exhaust all the time, perhaps heating the mixture more than it needs to be heated -- a relatively cold mixture is best in an engine at operating temperature. If it is stuck closed, it will run rough until it warms up. May or may not be important to you, depending on what the temperature is where you use the tractor. On my 460, same problem as yours, I broke the bolts holding the two halves of my 460 manifold together, ruined both halves trying to get them out. $$$.

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