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Super H or not???

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Fluggie in Iowa

05-13-2007 05:14:10

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Bought a Super H with a Woods 6' belly mower. Brought it home, read the serial tag, (SH 838 J)looked on this site, found it should be a 1953. I "friend" tells me he is certain it is NOT a SH but a regular H and I told him it has to be or someone has replaced the tag. Are there distinguishing features to tell me for certain? It has live hydraulics. What's the "J" for?
thanks for helpling settle a dispute

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Fluggie in Ia

05-15-2007 07:49:48

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Fluggie in Iowa, 05-13-2007 05:14:10

Thanks to all you kind folks for your comments and help. I ahve reviewed my SH and found the block no. to be 26036. I didn't mention before that it has an oil dip stick instead of the pan oil level check valves and the block casting no. is C-169. So, I am more certain this has to be a true SH.
thanks again!

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Pat H

05-13-2007 13:25:54

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Fluggie in Iowa, 05-13-2007 05:14:10

Fluggie, check the motor serial number stamped into the block on a raised boss underneath spark plug # 3. The motor serial on that tractor should be somewhere around 912 to match that chassis serial number. Please reply and let me know what the actual motor serial no. is. Hope this is of some help, Pat in Wis
p.s. - email is unlocked if you want to email me

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Hugh MacKay

05-13-2007 13:11:12

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Fluggie in Iowa, 05-13-2007 05:14:10

Fluggie: Since I posted this morning, none of these arguments hold water. you can put a C-164 engine in any H, SH, 300 or 350, but that doesn't make it a SH. The on-off switch in amp meter box started 2 years before SH. George is right about front bolster, Stage 1 had an H bolster and stage 2 had a 300 bolster, plus no factory live hydraulics.

Do as I told you to be certain.

The last time I got in one of these SH arguments, I got kicked off the guys property. He had a stage 2 SH for sale with proper front bolster, C-169 engine, live hydraulics with belly pump reservoir and band brakes. I had driven 150 miles to see this tractor. He was ready to swear on the bible, an 85 year old neighbor had bought it new, and it had been shedded every night since new. I asked how it got 3 shades of paint, then suggested he was being less than honest. Probably I wasn't quite that polite.

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GordoSD

05-14-2007 09:08:19

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-13-2007 13:11:12

I want to switch my SHstage II from wide front (Schwartz) back to narrow. Do you mean there is a unique LOWER bolster for this tractor? Mine was made the last week of production. What are the visible differences between it and say a stadarh H lower bolster?

Gordo

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georgeky

05-14-2007 13:41:23

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to GordoSD, 05-14-2007 09:08:19

On the front of yours at the corners there is a set of holes that cultivator supports attach to with a notch between them. The straight H does not have those on the corners of bolster. All stage II are this way along with Super MTA,300,350,400,450.

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Roger46

05-13-2007 19:37:05

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-13-2007 13:11:12

Hugh, Apparently IH did some changes from Stage I to Stage II late in 1953. I have a late 1953 Super H without live hydraulics, but it has the 300/350 type front bolster (my dad bought this tractor new in 1954). It seems that the primary difference between stage I and II must be the live hydraulics with the battery under the seat and other related electrical equipment relocation. Roger

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Hugh MacKay

05-14-2007 02:07:44

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Roger46, 05-13-2007 19:37:05

Roger: Primary difference when it comes to IH or very likely any other company, when a supply of the old part runs out, switch to the new part if possible. Lot of folks on here think all of these changes happened at model change, and some did, however many did not. Quite frankly it wouldn't surprise me if someone came up with a factory original H with a C-164 engine.

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Keith Babcock

05-15-2007 18:15:33

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-14-2007 02:07:44

I agree with you completely I have a early Super H that I came out with the C-164 engine

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Armand Tatro

05-13-2007 07:16:13

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Fluggie in Iowa, 05-13-2007 05:14:10

Georgeky With factory live hyd did the stage 1 Super H use the belly pump as a res. and valve set-up as a Non-super? Armand

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georgeky

05-13-2007 08:58:03

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Armand Tatro, 05-13-2007 07:16:13

I am not sure if any stage ones had factory live hydraulics or not. I don't think so. Lots of them have had it added and do use the belly pump as a resivour.

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CNKS

05-13-2007 19:33:40

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to georgeky, 05-13-2007 08:58:03

No factory live hydraulics on a stage 1 SH. H or SH, that one has been converted.

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Armand Tatro

05-13-2007 06:49:50

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Fluggie in Iowa, 05-13-2007 05:14:10

A super H should have battery box under the seat and the hyd. res. should be where the battery would have on a non=super H. The Hyd valve and control rod would be totaly diferent from a non=super; it would be close to what would be on a SMTA with factory live hyd. Armand

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georgeky

05-13-2007 06:57:41

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Armand Tatro, 05-13-2007 06:49:50

Stage 1 Super H did not have battery under the seat. Stage one Supers did not have resivour under the tank either. The front end is a little different too. The stage one has the same one as the straight H.

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Tim Kincaid

05-13-2007 06:38:24

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Fluggie in Iowa, 05-13-2007 05:14:10

Check block stamped above the oil filter. It should be stamped C-164 if it is a Super H. The on/off switch should be inside the ammeter box also. There are other things also but the block stamp should be the clincher.

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Hugh MacKay

05-13-2007 05:50:20

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Fluggie in Iowa, 05-13-2007 05:14:10

Fluggie: If you have reason to believe someone has changed the tag, casting codes are the only sure way to determine that. A 53 as early as that, should have X or Y date codes. X being 52 would have to be Oct., Nov. or Dec and Y being 53 would have to be Jan.

The disk brakes will not answer your question, IH were putting disk brake on Hs as early as 1951. They were also putting distributors on them by 51. One could also look at double bead rims however those are and easy switch. The engine may have some answers H and SH will have different block part number. engine serial number stamped just below number one plug may have the answer. I don't know what these numbers should, but someone will.

Getting back to your friend, I'd be curious to know what his reasoning is behind his judgement. He must have had a reason, maybe he saw something we don't see.

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champspa

05-13-2007 05:27:24

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Fluggie in Iowa, 05-13-2007 05:14:10

does it have band or disk brakes , disk brakes are SH

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Hugh MacKay

05-13-2007 05:54:16

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to champspa, 05-13-2007 05:27:24

Not so, IH were putting disk brakes on Hs as early as 1951. My dad had one he bought new, had the same disk brake as his Farmall 300 bought new in 55.

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Tractorfan1

05-13-2007 13:44:43

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-13-2007 05:54:16

My '48 H has disk brakes...

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georgeky

05-13-2007 14:22:04

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Tractorfan1, 05-13-2007 13:44:43

I think those are after market. They don't look like IH brakes that I have seen.

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chadd

05-14-2007 07:14:59

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to georgeky, 05-13-2007 14:22:04

Nope, they are factory attached, but not IH made. IH bought these brakes from an outside supplier and they would fit onto the same shaft that the bands did. It allowed them to offer a disc brake option that used all of the same bullgear and bullgear shaft parts. They were offered on the H and M for sure, don't know about the smaller tractors. To cut down on costs and to strengthen the setup, IH designed their own brake system just before the Supers came out. These had revised bullgear shafts to allow for the stronger brakes.

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Yugrotcart

05-13-2007 05:17:04

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Re: Super H or not??? in reply to Fluggie in Iowa, 05-13-2007 05:14:10

J- Rockford clutch

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