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Why not to plow

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GordoSD

05-11-2007 19:26:07




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My neighbor plowed a 100 foot by 800 foot strip on his land to plant some trees. It runs straight downhill to my creek. Well, we got 5 inches of rain, and that dead furrow is now a gully, 20 inches wide and 20 inches deep. He'll never get that scar off his property, and about 25 yards of invaluable good black topsoil ended up in my creek, where it will turn into muck. And so it will go for the next 20 yearts unless I go over there and strighten it out with a back blade and boxblade, disc, and harrow. Would a tiller fill in that ditch?

Gordo

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Hugh MacKay

05-12-2007 14:30:38




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to GordoSD, 05-11-2007 19:26:07  
Gordon: There are good reasons both for and against plowing, and most of them must be decided based on the situation. The are places to plow and places not to plow.

My guess is that plowing a strip 100' by 800' in South Dakota would be a disaster, as the water from firm soil on all the acres around would rush to that area. It would have been far better had they plowed 50 or 100 acres, then the water would have ample area to soak. That aside, I've never heard tell of plowing to plant trees. In eastern Canada we plant thousands of trees every year, and never ever break the sod or even remove the old tree stumps. Young college students go in big numbers with tray of tree seedlings and a tubular planter with a spear much like a walking stick, that has a hinged point that opens by stepping on a lever. They drop a seedling down the tube, pull the spear out. Tree farming in eastern Canada, the purest form of notill planting.

I'm working in my yard here today, every arce for miles around is corn, beans or wheat, 50 acres is a small field here. It rained quite heaviy here the past two days. Several neighbors notilling are out planting. The neighbor who plows spent 3 days early part of week disking and field cultivating, today he is waiting for his 100 acres, 4" of mush to dry so he can plant, wise, I think not.

Then you can get into areas with limited heat units. They are able to grow corn and beans because they do conventional tillage. I farmed such an area, land was dry enough to till by April 15th, however it was little more than 35 degrees at 4". We gained 10 degrees of heat at 4" in soil, over notilling by May 1st by tilling those two weeks. We also had acres and acres of softwood forest to hold the water back, after rains.

I could go on and on, present arguments for both sides of this till-notill debate. In fact I could turn it into a book and all the arguments, both sides would be correct.

Plain and simple what you have next door is a pair of dummies.

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BDT in Minnesota

05-12-2007 12:46:17




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to GordoSD, 05-11-2007 19:26:07  
GordoSD..... ..Your neighbors best bet at this point is to construct several dams with hay bales and use steel fence posts to hold the bales in place...I don't know about SD, but if he pulled that crap in MN, He could have the DNR on his case like a fly on ----..... .Good luck BDT



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Red Dave

05-12-2007 06:47:38




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to GordoSD, 05-11-2007 19:26:07  
A moldboard plow is like any other tool. It is inherently niether good nor bad. In the hands of a craftsman, it is blessing, in the hands of a fool, it is a hazard.

The plow doesn't steer itself, you have to know where and how to use it.



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GordoSD

05-12-2007 03:19:12




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to GordoSD, 05-11-2007 19:26:07  
Actually, it was a couple of honyockers employed by the federal ASCS office. They plant the trees that are ordered in the fall and put into tree claims on a cost share basis. These guys do this for a living! To make matters even worse they put in another one exactly like it 1/4 mile east of there, so I now have two new 'creeks' de-positing silt into mine. And now tonight, another round of thunderstorms.

Gordo

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riverbend

05-12-2007 09:34:23




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to GordoSD, 05-12-2007 03:19:12  
That would be pretty bad even for the federal government. If it was the ASCS, call them and tell 'em they've got a soil erosion problem that is winding up in your creek.

Greg



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Allan In NE

05-11-2007 21:50:47




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to GordoSD, 05-11-2007 19:26:07  
Well,

We know your neighbor is dumber than a plow at any rate. :>)

Allan



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georgeky

05-11-2007 19:58:02




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to GordoSD, 05-11-2007 19:26:07  
Seems like for some reason you are dead set against plowing. I wonder why this is. Some crops have to be plowed in order to cultivate. There are good methods of plowing that benefit the land the crop and the following crop. In some cases there is no substitute for a plow. Just curious.



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the Unforgiven

05-11-2007 21:08:27




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to georgeky, 05-11-2007 19:58:02  
It may be a regional thing, you VERY rarely see regular plowing in my neighborhood, I am not old enough to remember anyone plowing for real. I am still using the 15 foot Flex-King V-plow that came with the new 806.



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georgeky

05-11-2007 21:40:27




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to the Unforgiven, 05-11-2007 21:08:27  
Here nearly all ground is plowed. Most ground here is in tobacco or vegetables of one kind or another and needs cultivating. A few years ago a few farmers tried no tilling tobacco it was a complete joke. Good tobacco here will average between 2400 and 3000lbs or more per acre. The no till made a dismal 1500. Without plowing you can't cultivate and without cultivating tobacco will not do good at all. I understand that in dry country the cultivating might loose moisture and make crops suffer. I was just curious every time someone mentions plowing GordoSD seems to be down on them for plowing. He even lectured me while back about no tilling every once in a while being useless. Things from one region to another are likely to be different. What works for one may not work for another. With good farming practices plowing is a good thing in most cases around here.

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the Unforgiven

05-11-2007 22:28:21




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to georgeky, 05-11-2007 21:40:27  
Yeah, everyone here that is not no-till cultivates, but they tear the ground up with something else like a disk, chisel, or v-plow. About the only time you see a plow is someone breaking pasture for a new center pivot, and most of them use a ripper. How big is the average local tobacco field, I have never seen one. Another question if you don't mind, you hear guys talking about worn out steam traction engines being used to "steam" tobacco beds. What are they talking about?

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georgeky

05-12-2007 06:43:36




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to the Unforgiven, 05-11-2007 22:28:21  
That is the difference, most tobacco fields are small Ranging from 1/2 acre on small farms to a few acres. They rarely exceed 10 or 12 acres due to the lay of the land here. On some farms there might be 20 to 30 acre plots. It takes over 300 man hours to raise one acre of tobacco. We have never steamed tobacco beds here, I don't know what purpose that would serve. Some farmers do use steam engines in the fall and early winter to bring hanging tobacco in case. In order to take it down out of the barn, it has to have enough moisture in it that the leaves do not crumble when handled. When mother nature doesn't provide the moisture in some cases the steam engine does. As for tobacco beds they are usually grown now days in a greenhouse or in trays placed to float in outdoor water beds covered by a canvas. Some folks myself included still raise them the old fashioned way by plowing beds 12 feet by 100 feet the old timers burned these with a sled made from some kind of rails and a screen. They would pile the sled full of wood and start on one end of the bed and let it burn for a while, then pull the sled up a little and burn another spot, This kills the weed seed and makes a fine seed bed. This practice is no longer used by anyone that I know. The newer method is to make the bed cover with plastic and open cans of methyl bromide and let set for a couple of days to kill the weed seed. Methyl bromide has been outlawed and the other gasses that were used as well. After gassing seed is mixed with a bucket of fertilzer blended just for seed beds and sown by hand or one of those little push buggies. Then the beds are covered with a cotton canvas, actually it is not cotton anymore, but is on the same principal. Lots of these techniques vary from one region to another even from one type of tobacco to another. Nearly all Burley tobacco is cut by hand and placed on 4 1/2 foot sticks then hung in a barn and spread out on the stick to cure. This job will seperate the men from the wimps. Other types are picked by hand in the field and then cured with gas in a air tight barn. This is refered to as priming they pick only the ripe leaves at bottom of stalk first and then come back in a few days and pick a few more. This is done in several stages. It really looks funny to pass a field with only 3 or 4 leaves left on the top of the stalk. In burley which is what is grown here after curing and taking out of barn it is stripped off the stalk by hand and put in a baler made from plywood and baled. Now it is ready for market. I hope this shed some light for you.

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Janicholson

05-12-2007 05:50:46




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to the Unforgiven, 05-11-2007 22:28:21  
Tobacco plants are started in a hotbed with a glass cover. The soil in the bed needs to be sterile and warm/moist for planting the seeds early enough to get a harvest (mostly a northernish tactic I think from Ohio north)the steam does it all. JimN



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sflem849

05-11-2007 19:43:40




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to GordoSD, 05-11-2007 19:26:07  
I think you mean "Why not to plow up and down a hill" What a dumbaaa you know.
I would level it off and make it a waterway. I think a tiller might work, but the topsoil is going to be so light and fluffy that next rain it will wash again.



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georgeky

05-11-2007 21:42:51




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to sflem849, 05-11-2007 19:43:40  
Scott, some folks use a tiller here and it is the worst thing ever for promoting erosion. It does make a nice seed bed.



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KRUSS1

05-12-2007 05:47:22




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to georgeky, 05-11-2007 21:42:51  
At the risk of getting lynched: I for one agree with Gord about plowing. But then I have seen the odd dust storm in days gone by.



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georgeky

05-12-2007 07:00:04




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 Re: Why not to plow in reply to KRUSS1, 05-12-2007 05:47:22  
Here in the east we don't have dust storms. We do use chisels and field cultivators in corn and beans as well as coventional plows. We rotate between hay and pasture so the turning plow is a great tool.



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