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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate

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City-Boy McCoy

05-04-2007 15:42:58




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Howdy, boys: I was up at the farm earlier this week and was changing the oil and filter on one of the SA's. My neighbor was watching me. When I installed the new oil filter (NAPA #1172) he told me it did not fit right - that it should wedge itself into the bottom hole in the block tightly. If he is right, then I have been doing it wrong for three years. I have never had one that snapped or wedged itself into the hole on the block surface. I just figured the cap and bolt held everything in place. I have seen the bolt is hollow with an oil passage through the bottom and out the side.
Is he right? Am I using the wrong filter or something? Or, is he wrong about it fitting snugly into the hole on the block flange? Thanks as always.... mike

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gene bender

05-05-2007 03:40:57




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 05-04-2007 15:42:58  
Let the smart neighbor put it in his way then when he gets the bolt tight remove and inspect you will find a crushed filter then let him buy a new one. By the way CAR QUEST filters are made by WIX supposed to be the finest made according to some get them at their winter special for little over 2 bucks ea they call it filter special days or something like that. Local dealer in town of 1000 sells hundreds realy can save big bucks when you look at the prices on the large typr for air cleaners ect.

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SuperA-Tx

05-04-2007 22:12:00




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 05-04-2007 15:42:58  
At the "Clean Computers" site for Cubs theres a link for Super A and AV manuals. In the parts catalog on page 28 it shows the filter and how it fits.

I tried to post a link but for some reason YT wont even let me post the URl for the page.

Link

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Jim Becker

05-04-2007 19:49:53




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 05-04-2007 15:42:58  
The filter has a short tube sticking out each end. One is just big enough for the bolt to fit through. The other is notably larger. The large one will just fit into the bore in the block and should be down. If you have been installing them big end up, you have been doing it wrong.



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City-Boy McCoy

05-05-2007 04:03:05




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to Jim Becker, 05-04-2007 19:49:53  
I have not been installing them upside down. Maybe my neighbor has. mike



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Hugh MacKay

05-05-2007 03:36:40




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to Jim Becker, 05-04-2007 19:49:53  
Jim: I know you have parts books, thus a question? My 130 has a coil spring fits between filter and canister around the bolt. Not an exceptionally stiff spring, just enough to hold down on filter. My Super A, did not buy new, but does not have this. I can't remember regarding 140. All three canisters are the same size and if you place a filter in canister bottom side up, without spring, base of filter is about 3/8" below bottom edge of filter. My memory is a bit fuzzy on this but I believe all my H, 300, 560 and 656 had this feature with the filter. I know most did, just can't say 100%. As I see it, without the spring the filter cartridge can move up or down 1/4". Am I missing a part in my Super A, that part being a spring.

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Hugh MacKay

05-05-2007 04:59:39




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-05-2007 03:36:40  
Mike: You and the other folks hash this out. I'm gone for the weekend in 10 min. I'll read your decissions come Mon.



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Jim Becker

05-06-2007 10:03:46




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-05-2007 04:59:39  
I know I have seen springs on some filter elements, but don't recall ever seeing one with a Super A style filter. The A and Super A originally came with the umbrella type element that is open on top. Spring wouldn't work out well there. I think the small step on the bolt held them in place.

I haven't tried sliding one of the current style elements into the housing, at least not in a long time to see how deep it fits in. I think that when done, the tubular part on the bottom still projects past the end of the housing. I think that it is out far enough to stay in the bore of the block. As long as the tube is engaged in the bore, it shouldn't matter if the bottom of the element is tight against the surface of the block. As I recall, it needs some space as the inlet to the filter is in that area.

Checking a few parts books, I couldn't find any with the Super A type filter that included a spring. One I did find a spring for is the Farmall 560 element. That is a different style element, opening at each end, no projecting tubes.

The Super A etc. filter is a bypass system. Oil from the pump either goes to lube the engine OR goes through the filter and is dumped back to the pan. Is the 560 a full flow system, where oil from the pump goes through the filter then on to lube the engine? This is a guess, but maybe the spring is used with the full flow systems and acts as a filter bypass if the filter plugs. Oil pressure could push the element off its seat, against the spring to maintain flow to the bearings.

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Hugh MacKay

05-07-2007 03:09:34




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to Jim Becker, 05-06-2007 10:03:46  
Jim: I am aware of the early type filter, and as I recall the change occured about the time of 00 series introduction in 1954. I remember we were surprised to find the new type filter in a new 300.

I've checked it out several times and that new type filter in my SA, 130 or 140 could move up or down close to 1/4" to 3/8" in the cannister without the spring on top. I realize that would not allow the bottom tube to come out of casting.

I can't say the spring was in 130 from new as it has been rebuilt twice, once by IH dealer and once by an independant rebuilder. It could have been added at rebuild time. I think the spring was on top of oil filter of all 00 series and newer tractors. I will stand corrected as I just don't remember for certain. My thoughts are, could the spring have come and been introduced with the new filter.

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Jim Becker

05-07-2007 09:20:55




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-07-2007 03:09:34  
I was mostly around the older tractors that would have originally had the umbrella type elements. So a lot of the newer tractors could have the spring without me knowing it. I just can't find anything on a Parts Catalog to confirm the spring in anything with that style element. It does show in ones like the 560.

As long as the bottom tube stays in the casting, I don't see any harm from it being able to move inside the cannister.

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City-Boy McCoy

05-05-2007 04:21:52




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-05-2007 03:36:40  
Hugh: To me, that spring would be a good idea. In fact, I don't see how the filter can do a very good job without such a spring, as I get the same measurements as you, meaning it looks to me like my filter could move up and down about 1/4" to 3/8" also. I looked on the parts website and did not see a spring for the SA and others. I cannot find the engine parts site for the 130 and 140, however. mike

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IH2444

05-04-2007 18:48:59




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 05-04-2007 15:42:58  
My IH uses the same filter and imho the cone shaped top should push the base down in the hole if you push it too far down I am afraid it will not seal around the top, but not sure. I just start it down in the hole put the cover on and snug it down.



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City-Boy McCoy

05-04-2007 19:27:40




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to IH2444, 05-04-2007 18:48:59  
That is exactly what I have been experiencing; and that is why my neighbor thought it was the wrong filter. At least I am not alone....
mike



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CNKS

05-04-2007 18:36:53




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 05-04-2007 15:42:58  
Perhaps you need a new neighbor. The base should fit the hole, but it should slide in and out easily without flopping around too much (not a very good explanation, but I have never paid that much attention to it). I use Case-IH filters, not that they are any better.



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City-Boy McCoy

05-04-2007 18:39:31




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to CNKS, 05-04-2007 18:36:53  
Thanks.



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460anger

05-04-2007 17:26:14




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 05-04-2007 15:42:58  
The filter is alright. What happens is, you notice that your oil filter canister is built like a cone on top. When you tighten the bolt that goes done through the filter hits up inside the cone part and is pushed down into the hole in the bottom of the filter housing. Plus sealing the filter in the cone. Hope this helps you.



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City-Boy McCoy

05-04-2007 18:40:53




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to 460anger, 05-04-2007 17:26:14  
Thanks. That is what I suspected, and exactly what I needed to know. mike



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Andy Motteberg

05-04-2007 16:34:41




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 05-04-2007 15:42:58  
If it has worked fine all the time, it will work again.



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City-Boy McCoy

05-04-2007 16:51:52




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 Re: The Great Super A Oil Filter Debate in reply to Andy Motteberg, 05-04-2007 16:34:41  
Thanks, Andy, but I don't know that it has been working fine all the time. That is what I am trying to verify. mike



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