Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance?

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
IH Red

04-26-2007 19:31:20




Report to Moderator

Interested in your opinion. In the Mississippi Delta the 2 point hitch was out of date by the late 50's. The brass in the windy city would not listen, ford and ferguson were "tearing us a new one". This is from my father and many others.

Why did they stay with the 2 point?, arrogance or ignorance?

You can tell where I stand, I would like to hear from others. I am a history buff, I want the good, bad, and ugly.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
chadd

04-27-2007 11:48:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
From what I've heard, at no point did Ford and Ferguson "rip IH a new one." Yes, there were Fords in the area, but they were not used for any field work, except maybe pulling wagons, working hay equipment and operating a loader. If you did any tillage, it was either JD, IH, Oliver, or Allis. Why did they stay with the two point hitch? Because it was just as capable as the 3pt that became an industry standard. Our 806 has a two point (with adapters to make it a three point when needed) and our 966 and 2500A have three point. When hooking up 3pt implements, it usually involves fighting with the arms and the heavy implement trying to get the main arms lined up and then hooked up, then hooking up the 3rd arm, which is never set at the right length, so you have to screw it all the way in and then lengthen it again, and then put the pins through to hold the arms in place. At least 15 to 20 minutes are wasted just getting everything attached. Even with removing the drawbar, I can put a two point implement on the tractor by just backing up in one or two tries in less then 10 minutes. The adapters for our 2 point are also quick attach three point arms (no metal balls in the arms, the arm has a big U cut into it from the top where the ball would be with a spring loaded latch), so instead of removing pins and such, I just back up with the hitch lowered, get lined up as best as I can, and then lift the arms up. The pins slide into the U and the latch closes the top of the U when the pin is in place. Then I just need to put the third arm on, and didn't have to do any aligning. Also, as tractor vet mentioned, the hydraulic raising and lowering drawbar is a wonderful feature. We've had implement hitches sink in, jacks fall over, etc. If it weren't for the 806 with the two point, it would require getting a loader and a chain and raising the hitch up to get it attached. As long as our farm keeps going, there will be one tractor around with a 2pt.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
IH Red

04-27-2007 19:42:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to chadd, 04-27-2007 11:48:15  
Have you ever heard of a quick hitch for the 3-point? You do not have to do all the adjusting with the top link. Also the 2-point picked the implement up straight, did not pick the back up higher than the front.

The 2-point was different and good, but the higher ups should have listened to all points of view.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
BOBM25

04-27-2007 10:54:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
I don't think it was arrogance. Every manufacturer had their own style hitch back then. I'm sure the idea behind it was to sell implements as well as tractors. The fast hitch was sweet. The draft control was pretty primitive by todays standards, but then again about everybody's draft control back then wasn't real good. I always kinda thought Ferguson had the 3pt in the 40's, then AC came up with the snap coupler, then IH the fast hitch. Deere did nothing and waited to see what developed. IH and AC kept their respective hitches copyrighted, Ferguson/Ford did not, so Deere adopted the 3pt. After that half of the major agriculture equipment manufacturers of the time were using the 3pt, so it just started snowballing. Its just too bad that we ended up with clumsiest hitch for the rest of eternity. Anybody else's design is faster and more user friendly than the 3pt. But the 3pt is the strongest. The fast hitch would have had to undergo some major changes to be able to handle today's stuff. Could you imagine a fast hitch 13 knife anhydrous applicator?

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
No tools

04-27-2007 05:35:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
Well they can dog the old fast hitch all they want.
But the old fast hitch was a very fine piece of option on the tractors in their day. Might well be that the stuctural parts of that option was a little weak in places but by far the best hitch.Think about it whats one of the first things we want when we buy a new 3 point hitch tractor today.Quick hitch adaptor.

Ifin IH had used that hitch earlier with a live or Id PTO lots of other companys would never made it.

Yes i own some of all.

Bill

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Allan In NE

04-27-2007 04:43:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
Patent Infringement laws. The 2-point was nothing more than a stopgap hitch.

After those limits expired however, all manufacturers jumped on the 3-point bandwagon, as it was the only viable hitch that would handle the ever-increasing implement weights.

And no, Ford and Ferguson wasn't "Tearing us a new one" unless it might have possibly been in the smaller garden tractor/utility classes.

Allan

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

04-27-2007 03:39:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
Red: It was both in my opinion, Harry Ferguson had won the hitch war before IH sold it's first fast hitch. Then there is the case that IH thought they were going to hold farmers to buying exclusively IH implements, stupid mistake, farmers back then were much too independant for that nonsence. Add to that the 30-50 and 40-60 fast hitches, probably the poorest draft control in history.

Finally for anyone doing PTO drawbar and heavy tillage drawbar work with big tractors like 300, 400, 350, 450, 460 and 560, buy the time the tractor had 3,000 hours on it the hitch was so loose, it was much like pulling the baler or forage harvester with a 4' chain. This was hard on PTO drive lines. One could rebuild the pins and pin holes, however he was luckey to get one season and the hitch was loose as ever. I had a 560, and I cut the fast hitch up for scrap before the tractor was 10 years old. Went to IH dealer and bought a new U and swinging drawbar.

Another mistake all American row crop manufacturers made was trying to use mounted equipment fast hitch or 3 point hitch, without moving operator platform forward, thus allowing room for hitches to operate and raise equipment as high as needed. Couple that with the fact of mounting and dismounting tractor over the back. I never slipped in my life climbing on a Farmall with U drawbar. I still have scars for crawling over fast hitch. IH wasn't the only one to make that mistake. Oliver, Deere, Cockshutt, MH, etc were every bit as bad on that one.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jim Higgins

04-27-2007 06:19:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-27-2007 03:39:11  
I have had a bad experience with the baler and my pto/fast hitch set up ! How do you avoid that hitch from Jumping up and ramming the pto into the hitch ?
thanks



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Janicholson

04-27-2007 07:26:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to Jim Higgins, 04-27-2007 06:19:08  
BEcause there are several different pin locations, this is generic. A Pin is placed in the hitch system to lock it in the vertical direction. This also allows down force on the hitch. To find it use a jack on the hitch and look for a hole, or sleeve that is sliding past another hole just as the hitch is moved upward. JimN



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Allan In NE

04-27-2007 07:07:48




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to Jim Higgins, 04-27-2007 06:19:08  
Have you got those sissor pins in at the forward end of the receiver tubes? That locks it to the cylinder and there's no way it can come up.

Allan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
georgeky

04-27-2007 07:06:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to Jim Higgins, 04-27-2007 06:19:08  
If you have a tractor with the newer style hitch there might be a pin missing from bottom of cylinder. This allows the hitch to float. A easy way to tell is place a block under the drawbar and try raising the tractor up. If the pin is missing it will not. You will be able to see where it goes by wathing the hitch operate.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gary in Mozarks

04-27-2007 03:18:21




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
From what I have read, The refusal of IHC to allow other companys to make equipment for the fast hitch (and other tractor mfg to use it) was probably the biggest mistake they ever made, (along with the 560 rear end fiasco) but at that point, they had most of the market and were probably a little arrogant. if they had been willing to allow aftermarket mfg I think the 3 point would have gone the way of the 8 track tape. The fast hitch is a easier, more convienent system, but it only works if new equipment comes out set up for it. Without that, its a Beta tape player

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
City-Boy McCoy

04-27-2007 03:05:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
I don't think it was arrogance; I think it was confidence; the IH brass knew they had a better design.
Ignorance? Perhaps - for thinking one tractor company was going to hold the entire tractor market at bay with a design they were not willing to share with the other manufacturers.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
W4

04-26-2007 21:28:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
I read John Deere wanted buy the right from IH to use it on there tractors but were turned down.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
georgeky

04-26-2007 21:50:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to W4, 04-26-2007 21:28:27  
Had IH let others use this design, it may still be on new tractors today. It is a lot easier to put implements on and off the tractor. I think the arrogance and perhaps ignorance was in not letting others use the fast hitch.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
the tractor vet

04-26-2007 20:30:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
Myself i like the fast hitch . With the fast hich drawbar ya can get down on the ground to lift a heavy toungue up with no hassel . whn hooking to the plow just back up click pick up get off tractor and plug the hose in . On the 1066 ya back up get off the tractor fight the three point arms ya have to fight the plow then get back on tractor back up wiggel the back end a bit to get the other arm close back off the tractor finish up the hook up then back up on the tractor by the time ya get the plows on the 1066 i have two round in before my buddy gets to the field . And every year nomatter how we block the heavy implments they sink in the ground since i bought this ratty old FAST HITCH 806 everybody uses it to lift implments up to reblock Or the fertilizer spreader the the hitch pin either broke or came out and took a noe dive in plowed ground with 6 ton on it it's hey where your 806 . Ya can keep the three point i keep my fast hitch. If i want three point then just slide in the adjustable prongs and i now have Cat.I or cat II three point so i have the best of both worlds.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
big red fred

04-26-2007 19:48:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
we have 3 of the old 2 points converted to 3 point but some times they are put back to 2 points no big deal switching back and forth is easly done... I realy don`t see that much of a problem....



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
wegman in Mn

04-26-2007 19:42:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to IH Red, 04-26-2007 19:31:20  
ih wanted a hitch that was unique. they were also afraid of patnet infringement. they also wanted costomers to purchase the implements that were ment for the tractor. basicaly for uniformity and more busness.

my .2 cents



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
steveormary

04-26-2007 20:57:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: Fast hitch, arrogance or ignorance? in reply to wegman in Mn, 04-26-2007 19:42:37  
Had a 706 ger. diesel with fast hitch. I also had the 3pt adapter arms and top link to go with the 3pt. Both hitches worked well for me. It was mostly a draw hooking up equiment but I preferred the 3 pt. That is what I grew up with.

steveormary



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy