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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stuff..

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Patrick Martin

04-24-2007 19:04:21




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OK, I bought the two M's that I was looking at. Told the guy I'd pick them up and he can consider them sold.

I've still got some questions about the hydraulics and installation of a 3pt on one and just live hyd on the other.

I was looking at an exploded view of the tranny mounted pump and it looks like a simple line in and line out pump? What is the capacity of the reservor and is it in the casting above the pump?
Are there quick connects on the side of the tranny housing or are there pipe plugs to thread hoses?????

Where are the controls for this hyrdraulic system? Is the lever with the little rod with the dropdown finger loop the control and if so is it a 3 position control or a simple on/off function?

I'm thinking of forgoing the expense of purchasing a 3pt and just fabbing one (or two) up myself. Will it be possible to plumb into the pump to where I can have active lines for the 3pt's two rams and then still run two more for live hydraulics like in the link to the picture below?

Sorry about all of the questions guys. I know y'all probably might fuss at me and say I need to order a manual and just so you'll know I did but I'm kinda itchy for some answers while I'm waiting for it to be delivered. :)

Thanks!!!!! Pat

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DC_PA

04-24-2007 19:25:19




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to Patrick Martin, 04-24-2007 19:04:21  
That cause the picture u have is a Super. They have Live Hydraulics which is dual hydraulics. regular M have single hydraulic and not live (stops when clutch is pushed in). Still is able to run 3pt hitch tho.



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chadd

04-25-2007 04:55:19




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to DC_PA, 04-24-2007 19:25:19  
Not sure if you just mistyped or I am reading your post wrong, but "live hydraulics" are not "dual hydraulics." Live hydraulics means that the pump is driven directly off of the engine or in some manner, obtains its power from a shaft that is driven whenever the tractor engine is running. This allows the clutch to be depressed and the pump to still operate. Any system, regardless of its pump can be made into a dual system, as the valve, not the pump location decides that. Dual hydraulics means that the pump pressure can be applied to either side of a hydraulic cylinder. In this way, it can power implements that are unable to use gravity to return them, such as an aiming baler thrower or lifting a disc's wheels in the air to go in deeper. A single way hydraulic system can provide pressure in the up direction, but relies on gravity or some other force (such as a spring) to return the cylinder and the implement to the down position. IH made a retrofit kit around 1951 or so to provide 2-way hydraulics for Farmall H's or M's for those that needed it. It still used the belly pump (which isn't live) but our 1940 Farmall M has it and can provide up and down pressure to the implement.

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Patrick Martin

04-25-2007 16:45:19




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to chadd, 04-25-2007 04:55:19  
thank you very much for that clarification Chadd! :)

Now I understand how this works. I was wondering why some didn't have 2 and now I understand that this is a one line system. Thanks!



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Patrick Martin

04-24-2007 19:07:57




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to Patrick Martin, 04-24-2007 19:04:21  
third party imageLink loading="auto" style="width:auto;height:auto">">Link

OOPS! Here's the pic! How come there are two lines and on some tractors I only see one?



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edss

04-24-2007 20:37:19




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to Patrick Martin, 04-24-2007 19:07:57  
That tractor looks pretty good.



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Patrick Martin

04-24-2007 19:43:12




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to Patrick Martin, 04-24-2007 19:07:57  
So basically that means that every time I stop to push in the clutch my 3pt will drop whatever implement I have on it. Correct?

Am I supposed to plumb in a 3 way control into the output line to prevent the rams from releasing under load?

What does the hydraulic control on the tractor do? Is it just an ON/OFF?



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georgeky

04-24-2007 21:07:08




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to Patrick Martin, 04-24-2007 19:43:12  
No your lift will stay up, it just won't lift with the clutch pushed in.



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Patrick Martin

04-24-2007 21:57:55




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to georgeky, 04-24-2007 21:07:08  
Well that's good to know! :) Now how does that little lever work?



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georgeky

04-24-2007 23:22:34




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to Patrick Martin, 04-24-2007 21:57:55  
I assume you are talking about the hydraulic control lever. Pull it all the way back and it lifts. Push forward and it lowers.



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Patrick Martin

04-25-2007 00:47:35




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to georgeky, 04-24-2007 23:22:34  
Thank you much!!!! :) I was wondering! Too bad they don't have some slick levers like the SA or 100 though.



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Nat 2

04-25-2007 06:05:25




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to Patrick Martin, 04-25-2007 00:47:35  
Patrick,

You seem pretty excited. Calm down and let's take things one at a time. Once you get the tractors home you'll have all the time in the world to assess the situation, figure out how things work, and figure out what you're going to do.

M's come with a "belly pump." It is driven off the transmission, so when the clutch is pushed the pump stops pumping. It's capacity is 6 quarts as I recall, not much.

The belly pump is a one-way system, pressure up, gravity down. In its day, light years ahead of lifting by hand or just dragging the implement home from the field.

When you see two hoses, that means someone added a two-way valve to the tractor. The two-way valve redirects the fluid to give pressure in both directions. These are very easy to add, but will cost you a couple hundred dollars for the valve and hoses.

The belly pump has three ports, two on the left, one on the right. They may be plugged or they may have quick connects. It's very easy to add quick connects yourself, and I recommend it. All three ports are controlled by the rod on the right side. Pull the rod, and two ports lift simultaneously, the front on the left and the right port. Hold the rod and when the cylinders are fully raised, the rear left port starts to lift. It's a delayed lift for the rear "tire track scrubbers" on a front-mount cultivator. You almost never use the rear left port.

Live hydraulics involve an engine-driven pump that mounts in front of the distributor. Since the engine is turning the pump directly, you always have hydraulics even when the clutch is pushed. Unless you are very lucky, neither of your Ms has live hydraulics. It wasn't available when the tractors were new, and only a few were added later on. Adding live hydraulics is EXPENSIVE, costing at least $800 for the pump, hoses, valve, and reservoir. I would NEVER buy a used pump, only a new IH pump because these pumps are not rebuildable. An old pump is probably worn out. It's not worth the risk.

Hopefully this makes things clearer. Good luck!

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Patrick Martin

04-25-2007 17:00:21




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to Nat 2, 04-25-2007 06:05:25  
WOW! Thank you sooooo oo very much Nat 2 for this explanation!!!! You're right, I am excited, I love collecting old machines and there's something that makes me giddy about them. I might not touch it for a year but just periodic piddling with it just tickles me to death! :)
Realistically I think I will have these restored in short time. I need these for my ranch so it's not just for fun alone. :)

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georgeky

04-25-2007 07:16:54




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 Re: Curious about a Farmall M's hydraulics and stu in reply to Nat 2, 04-25-2007 06:05:25  
Nat, The delayed lift valve on mine is mounted between the hose and cylinder. Are you sure the lift all has this built in. If so what is the purpose of the external delay valve? It works very well. I also checked the manual and it made no reference to the delay being built in.



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