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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super A crank Case noise

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M. Leberman

04-06-2007 21:18:52




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Hi guys I have been lurking on the forum for a few months gleaning allot of information from posts. I grew up farming with a super A. My grandfather sold it to upgrade when I was 11. I finally tracked down his old super A. I got lucky and an old local farmer still had it. It had not been started in 6 years but had been barn kept its whole life. It started and ran great. Engine wise all I have had to do was address a stuck float valve in the carb. I have replaced all the engine fluids that the old manual recommends. All save the crank case oil. I had checked it and the case was full but had not gotten around to changing it. I have been messing around with the cultivator using the A in the garden this year. I had noticed a slight whine from the gears in the case under the gear shift that was not unlike one of my old john deers used to make. I had resolved to change the case oil soon. Today I put the disc hillers on and was going to make rows. It was a pretty cool day here in Alabama. I let it warm up before heading out. Halfway through the first row all of a sudden the case started making a noticeable metallic clicking noise coming from under the gear shift that it had not made before. It was not under heavy load, in fact I would say minor load. I immediately stopped and reduced throttle. Stopping and reducing the throttle subsided the noise greatly but I could still hear it. After testing a little she seemed to go ok even with the noise so I slowly headed back to the barn and parked her. I was hoping for some suggestions of what could be going on from you that have had the case apart. The noise sounded like it was coming from under the gear shift and was proportionate to the speed and load on the tractor.. Could something be out of sinc or lost a tooth? It is defiantly a metallic clicking. Could the noise be a result of the old oil in cold conditions or do you think there is defiantly some damage? I was hoping to use her this summer and refurbish next winter. Any suggestions?


M. Leberman

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M Leberman

04-07-2007 19:28:16




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 Re: Super A crank Case noise in reply to M. Leberman, 04-06-2007 21:18:52  
Hi guys, ok I lied I could not sit around today and not check so I pulled it out of the barn and into the shop, fired up the floods and the heaters and went to work. Here is what I have found.

The sound was indeed coming from the crank case under the gear shift.

The sound did not stop when the clutch was engaged and the sound/noise and clicking was proportionate to the speed of the engine.

I took off the crank case inspection hatch. At first everything looked ok. All the teeth I could see looked in really good shape. I started turning the hand crank in one inch increments and inspected the teeth. After a while bad news rotated around. Just how bad I need some advice on.

On one of the lower sprockets there is are several broken teeth and a 3 inch stretch where the teeth have been broken down to half their height. I have uploaded 3 pics to photobucket which can be seen here

Link

In one of the cogs just above the broken teeth I found a pretty large metal fragment. The top of a tooth which I removed.

Now all the other gears/ sprockets looked in really good shape and so does this one except for the 3 inches or so where the teeth are damaged. I know its not good but just how bad are we talking here? Is the problem being caused by metal debris in the works? Or is it also the broken teeth along with the debris? If I flushed out the crank case with kerosene several times and got all the metal shavings could I possible avoid having to split the case? What do you guys think from the pics. Also I have the reprint of the IH user maintenance Manuel. Its crap. Under crank case bearing it says take it to a IH dealer. It’s a real rubbish check the oil here but don’t do anything else yourself kind of Manuel. Which shop manuals are you guys using?

Mike

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Hugh MacKay

04-08-2007 10:54:23




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 Re: Super A crank Case noise in reply to M Leberman, 04-07-2007 19:28:16  
Mike: You've completely lost me, first I cant bring up your photos. You keep refering to crankcase, yet you say just below the gear shift lever. Now, in all my years tractoring the crankcase is the bottom half of the engine, whereas just below the gear shift lever is the transmission case, usually transmission and rear end in the same case.

Then you confuse me up even further by suggesting the noise does not stop when clutch is engaged. If the noise is under the gear shift lever, then the noise will stop when clutch is disengaged, as there is nothing turning in there with clutch disengaged. I must admit, I'm left here wondering where your noise is coming from.

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M Leberman

04-07-2007 12:25:54




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 Re: Super A crank Case noise in reply to M. Leberman, 04-06-2007 21:18:52  
Thanks guys, its bitter cold windy here today so im not messing with it. Tomorrow its supposed to be warming up. I will isolate and double check exatly where the noise is coming from and pull off the inspection plate and take a look. I'll post back my findings. Thanks again everyone im so glad i found this forum.

Mike



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Dave BN

04-07-2007 11:23:13




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 Re: Super A crank Case noise in reply to M. Leberman, 04-06-2007 21:18:52  
My "guess" would be the oil slinger gear. New gear lube might quiet it down. If not you can run it with out any damage. Mine makes that noise every one in a while, then it quiets down. Kinda sounds like valve or lifter noise but in the transmission not the engine. It should stop when you push the clutch in as the shafts in the transmission quit turning. Dave



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Hugh Mackay

04-07-2007 07:49:20




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 Re: Super A crank Case noise in reply to M. Leberman, 04-06-2007 21:18:52  
M. Leberman: Powertrain noises often can be deceiving on source. With tractor running put a cut off broom, shovel, etc. handle up to your ear and place other end on various places on castings. This will allow you to zero in on exactly where noise is coming from. If you are sophisticated a stethescope will achive the same. In fact most auto parts stores sell these for just that purpose. I've even anchored and jacked tractor and listened for rear end and final drive noise with rear wheels turning. You will be able to pickup noise long before you hear them from the seat during operation.

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banjo

04-06-2007 21:48:23




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 Re: Super A crank Case noise in reply to M. Leberman, 04-06-2007 21:18:52  
If it sat that long and there was moisture in the tranny it may be part of a bearing rusted off or some teeth on the aluminum oil gear came off.

When you drain the gear oil check for metal peices,bearing cage ,gear teeth.



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Patrick Martin

04-07-2007 01:19:19




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 Re: Super A crank Case noise in reply to banjo, 04-06-2007 21:48:23  
It would also be a good idea to take the transmission shifter topcover off too and visually inspect the gearbox. I think it's only 8 or 9 bolts or so.

Hey, it might even be a final drive too. Are you sure it's only in the gearbox?



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