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350 utility diesel hydraulic problems

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lilb67

03-27-2007 05:23:59




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Hello,

Well I have an old 1957 International 350 Utility Diesel. And here is a little history. This tractor sat in the weather for 5yrs because of a fuel leak. I purchased it and towed it home
and found the fuel pump was bad so I removed the pump and injectors and had them rebuilt. The tractor runs fine now although the hydraulic system started working rather odd. At first the power steering and loader/3 point worked great. When the problem began with the hydraulics the loader and 3 point started operated slowly. Then in order for the loader or 3 point to work you had to turn the steering right or left, shortly after that it lost both power steering and all hydraulics. So I took the tractor to a tractor repair shop. There they had ask too run a series of tests to rule out the pump. So 2 wks and $300 later they said it was the pump. Well I purchased another pump and installed it. It is now doing almost the same thing as before when it started acting up the first time. Now the loader and 3 point go up nice and smooth but now it doesn’t have power steering, oh and you still have to turn the steering wheel right or left to get the loader and 3 point to function. The pump is making a noise as if it is low on fluid or if you turn the steering wheel full turn.

So without hooking up a pressure gauge I removed the high pressure line from the steering assembly and it seemed to have plenty of pressure. Then I removed the return line from the power steering assembly to the reservoir and it seemed to have plenty of pressure there as well. So nothing seemed to be plugged for the power steering loop. I only ran the tractor long enough to make a quick check because I noticed the pump was getting hot. In the trouble shooting section of the manual it leans towards the FLOW CONTROL VALVE ASSEMBLY. Well it was removed and checked for debris and rough spots. The spring was replaced. At this point I need some help in trying to diagnose the problem. I have multiple pictures for a visual aid. All of your responses will be greatly appreciated. You can also email at bprice@mc3corp.com

Thanks, Brian

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Satsop

03-27-2007 09:29:05




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 Re: 350 utility diesel hydraulic problems in reply to lilb67, 03-27-2007 05:23:59  
Lilb
Check the vent that is under the seat there is a 2nd vent on the power steering, the whole system may be pressurizing and then releasing when you turn the steering wheel. Just a thought.
Jim



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Gary in Mozarks

03-27-2007 07:41:07




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 Re: 350 utility diesel hydraulic problems in reply to lilb67, 03-27-2007 05:23:59  
I think walt is right, I am battling a plugged filter problem in my 460U right now. In my fencerow tractor, having sat so long with water in it, the red oxide primer inside the case is flaking off and plugging the filter. I have pulled the filter and and cleaned it about 10 times now trying to get it all out. I am getting closer. I am not familar with the filter on a 350 but the symptoms sound the same.

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lilbs67

03-27-2007 07:06:08




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 Re: 350 utility diesel hydraulic problems in reply to lilb67, 03-27-2007 05:23:59  
I found the small screen in the flow control valve block assembly, but I didn't know of the other one. How can I gain access to the screen? I have pics of the assembly, if you would email me at bprice@mc3corp.com I will forward them maybe you could draw a line or arrow to it's location.

Thanks, Brian



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dave2

03-27-2007 12:35:05




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 Re: 350 utility diesel hydraulic problems in reply to lilbs67, 03-27-2007 07:06:08  
I had a problem like that, and it was a piece of dirt in the control valve block (the little check ball on the end of the spring wasn't seating). In my case it was just as simple as having someone take it apart and put it back together (after they didn't see anything wrong).
Good Luck.



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lilb67

03-28-2007 04:50:41




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 Re: 350 utility diesel hydraulic problems in reply to dave2, 03-27-2007 12:35:05  
Well here is the latest on my tractor. I decided to remove the resevoir based on the responses I recieved. So as I started removing the inlet and return lines located in front of the reservoir going to the pump I discovered that the return line was extremely loose. So I'd remember reading that if a leak in the system on the return side could cause air suction, which in turn means starving the pump for volume which can make the pump run hot.

So I tightened everything up, added fluid and started the tractor. It now seems to have power steering and front and rear hydraulics. Although the pump still seams to be running hot. I had also noticed that the O ring seals @ the pump/manifold started to leak a little. I will replace them with new ones and see how things continue to work. I believe I should still remove the resevoir and check the condition of the screen. It's too bad I got taken for $300.00, guess I'll know better next time. I'll respond as I continue with this ol relic!

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lilb67

03-29-2007 04:40:36




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 Re: 350 utility diesel hydraulic problems in reply to lilb67, 03-28-2007 04:50:41  
Here's an update for those who maybe having the same symptoms as I have with the hydraulics. I removed the reservior as suggested and found the cartrige shape screen filter was so badly pluged it had collapsed under the pumps suction. So I will be replacing it along with new O ring seals and new fluid. Thanks again to all who forwarded tips. It was back breaking but it saved me lots of coin.



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JayWalt

03-27-2007 08:19:22




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 Re: 350 utility diesel hydraulic problems in reply to lilbs67, 03-27-2007 07:06:08  
libs, unfortunately the main hydarulic filter screen is under the resevoir cover, which the seat is attatched too. And also unfortunatley, you have to drain the resevoir before removing the cover. you'll also need to remove the hardlines from the front of the cover (you can leave them bolted to the pump)and the valve blocks from the side. That is why I suggested looking in through the fill cap with a light and mirror, u might be able to see it. If you do decide to pull the cover (unfortunately its the last thing I checked), be sure to clean the resevoir and cover well. DO NOT use carb cleaner on it, It removes the paint/primer. Just wiping it out and scooping the crud out of the bottom should be good, you want it clean, but you dont wanna introduce anything into the system like soap that u cant be sure you've removed all of. You'll need 2 strong hands or a lift/cherry picker. Be sure to lift the cover straight up and dont let it turn, because the filter hangs lower then the res cover and you can EASILY Damage it.

I'm not positive this is your problem, But I tried EVERYTHING to fix my whining pump except for this.

While you have the hydraulic oil out, either change it with new, or filter the old stuff good before u put it back in. If its milky or cloudy it has moisture in it and will need to be replaced or heated up and the water driven out of it, not too hot or u can burn the oil. (not much above 220F outta boil the water and not harm the oil)

Cleaning the filter isnt a simple process, so try to see if you can see it through that cap. If you have gasket material, u can make a new gasket, which I've done, not the easiest, but I've done it. They are only 17$ at case, so maybe that would be the better route. Just be sure not to crush the filter or you'll be shelling out around $90 for a new one, like I did. Just loosen the nut holding the fiilter on the res cover, and then spin the pipe off using channel locks or something, best to replace the oring while your at it, so its not sucking air.

As I said before, I'm not sure if this is the problem, but if your new pump is also whining, the filter is probably at fault. I did everything to my system before I took that route. I boiled and filtered the oil 3 times because of the residue in the hoses and cylinders would recontaminate the fluid. Then I changed the fluid. I diassembled/inspected/cleaned both of my valves and the safety regulator. Still a whiney pump. I narrowed it down to a clogged filter or worn pump drive gear. I took the res cover off, the filter was clogged and had crushed the filter and sucked a hole through it. I didnt wanna spend the $90 on a new one, So I went the cheap and stupid route and put an external filter assembly on the hardlines. While this was a good idea in theory, these older pumps are not designed to suck fluid through a 25micron hydraulic filter, especially in the winter. removed the new filtr asembly, and no whine. Just got a new OEM screen, and am about to put it back in. If yours is damaged, I suggest u try to find a used one (good luck, I looked for over a month), or you'll have to spend the money on a new one from the dealer.

Hopefully Your is in good shape!!
Good luck.

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georgeky

03-27-2007 06:00:24




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 Re: 350 utility diesel hydraulic problems in reply to lilb67, 03-27-2007 05:23:59  
It may just be sucking air from somewhere, but it does sound like it could be the flow control valve. I would find me another repair shop in the future. 300 dollars sounds high for a simple test to see if pump is working. That is why I try to fix all my junk myself. Some of these shops think they have a license to rob customers.



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JayWalt

03-27-2007 05:51:49




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 Re: 350 utility diesel hydraulic problems in reply to lilb67, 03-27-2007 05:23:59  
If the pump is making a whining noise, check the filter. It is located in the resevoir, so you'll need a new gasket if you decide to clean it. It is just a brass mesh screen in a tube shape, so be careful if you decide to remove the cover. A new gasket is available from case for about 17$. You might be able to use a mall dental mirror and a light to see it through the filler port. It is on the "passenger" side of the resevoir, about in the middle of the resevoir. Should be relatively easy to tell if its clogged up.

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