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Another dumb question hydralic oil

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Gary in Mozarks

03-19-2007 00:04:02




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Ok I go find this GEM of a fencerow 460 Utility with loader. The guy says the Hydralic pump is out. I drain the water out of the bottom plugs, put 10 gallons of new hydralic oil in it and get it running and the system lifts the loader fine. for about 2 cycles Then nuttin. I drain the system, install a new filter and 10 gallons of new Hydralic oil. worked for a bit agian then stopped. Pulled the filter, plugged again. Ok Here is my question. I have 20 gallons of new foamy hydralic oil. (100 bucks to us retired guys is a lot) Has any ever tried to boil the water out of foamy oil? Ive got a big 5 gallon pot and a fire. Hugh, don;t be to hard on me.

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Bob in Aberdeen

06-16-2007 19:42:48




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks, 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
Gary in Mozarks. How did you make out with your loader and oil? I have a simular problems with a 460 that I'm just digging into. We've had the 460 for 30 years and have never ysed the hydraulics. I recently bought a loader for it and have it mounted. As my luck would have it, it has issues. A couple of years ago I was mowing with it and bumped one of the touch control levers and it put a strain on the motor since I guess because of it being dead headed? Once I hooked up the loader, it would not do anything, however the other day I was mowing again and I moved the touch control lever and the loader moved, not great, but moved. I talked to a friend and he suggested to change the filter and see what happens. I know what the concern of the price of the oil can be. The IH parts guy said the the old fluid in the tractor was probally whale oil base as oposed to mineral oil base. He also said that the new oil would clean the waxy build up in the system and blinde the filter several times and the fluid would need to be changed again. Anything that you can pass on to me might help. Thanks

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flying belgian

03-19-2007 20:24:58




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
Just pour a pint in gas tank everytime you fill car, truck, tractor, wifes car etc. You will get your moneies worth back from gas savings.



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Harold Hubbard

03-19-2007 16:13:18




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
Many years ago, The Mother Earth News had an article with plans for an oil "re-cycler". It was basically a system of PVC pipe set up to slowly drip used oil through a chamber heated by a light bulb, to evaporate the water, and then through a roll of toilet paper as a fine filter. It worked on gravity, so the only electricity used was for the light bulb. It was intended for motor oil, but I would think that it would work much better for hydraulic oil, as it usually hasn't been cooked and diluted with combustion by-products the way engine oil has. I am sure that someone, somewhere, has the article or a reprint of it, might take a while to find.

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dej(ed)

03-19-2007 11:35:18




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
The water probably won't settle out. You will have an emulsion and that will take an emulsion breaker. If you add extra water, stir it and super saturate it, it will then fall out.



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chadd

03-19-2007 11:20:31




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
I know the one mechanic in our area uses his IH Flowrater or whatever it is called to get water out of the oil. He hooks it up, runs the tractor wide open, uses it to put load on the hydraulic system, and then opens the dipstick cap slightly over the differential. The fluid gets hot enough that the water drops out of suspension and starts to collect in the bottom of the reservoir. Then he shuts the tractor off, and pulls every drain plug right away, lets it sit dry with the plugs open for a day or two (unless it is dusty or raining or something and the tractor is outside), and then puts the plugs back in and fills it up. It seemed to work on our 806. You think that is expensive for 12 gallons, now try 18; OUCH!! If you have winters, make extra sure you get it all out, because that water can do real damage. I still don't know what to do about the crack the ice put in our 806's hydraulic filter housing about 5 years ago. To make matters worse, it sucked the cast iron chips through the MCV pump. There was a loud bang, the pressure dropped somewhat and we found metal shavings in the filter after the first change, but the pump is still operating at reduced pressure and we hope it stays that way for a while. third party image

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farmallhal

03-19-2007 07:49:46




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
Gary, In a prior hobby of cutting rocks into smaller slabs I used to strain the cutting saw oil frequently to remove the crud. Here's the process I used and the oil came out like clean as new. This won't do anything for the water and as Hugh noted below will just take time to settle out. Find a couple of buckets or a small barrel. Drill lots of holes in the lower portion of the small bucket and build a rack so that it will set down inside a little and above the other bucket or small barrel. Get two brown paper grocery bags and put one inside the other and put them in the top bucket which has the drain holes drilled into it. Pour in your hydraulic fluid and let it drain through the paper bags and drip into the lower bucket or barrel. It will certainly filter out the trash and crud and the oil in the lower container will look like new. This is something you want to do in a corner somewhere where it won't get distrubed by anyone or anything because if the top filter bucket gets dumped you have a real mess to clean up. I left the one I made back in Washington when I moved back to the farm. What I actually used was a small barrel about 15-20 gallons for the bottom and cut an outline for a square 4 gallon plastic bucket I used on the top with the grocery bags. I cut the outline of the square bucket into a piece of plywood with a saber saw so that the small bucket would fit through the wood and all the drip holes were below the plywood which rested on top of the barrel. I think you get the idea but the double trash bags make an excellent filter and the bucket in which they are placed provide enough support so they don't rip out. When you are finished or the bags get clogged with chud just wad them up and dispose of them in a plastic bag along with the other burnable house garbage.
If you need more detail shoot me an email - will be gone this afternoon into town, hopes this helps, Hal.

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Hugh MacKay

03-19-2007 12:36:39




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 Re: Reread more carefully, now I understand. in reply to farmallhal, 03-19-2007 07:49:46  
Hal: I was in a rush when I read this earlier, now I comperhend.



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farmallhal

03-19-2007 17:48:05




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 Re: Reread more carefully, now I understand. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-19-2007 12:36:39  
Hugh, I hoped it wasn't too difficult to figure out but the system really worked for cleaning out the old rock saw oil. What was really great with the method is you just dispose of the filter and use a couple new grocery bags for the next batch. Interesting thing about the old rockhounds as they like to get by with little or no cash expeditures with the hobby. They all carry around at least one Million Dollar piece of rock in their pockets. The trouble is that it's value is only at that level in trade for another person's Million Dollar rock. It usually takes a dollar and a Million Dollar rock for a cup of coffee at most places but those million dollar rocks can't be bought for any price and they turned down offers in thousands already. If my cousin Haas would see this thread he might have a way of separating the water from the oil with his extensive chemical engineering background.

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Hugh MacKay

03-19-2007 08:39:25




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to farmallhal, 03-19-2007 07:49:46  
Hal: Bear in mind I read this quite in a hurry, however you lost me.

Gary: I just took a Flanelette bed sheet, Marg. told me was worn out. Bear in mind she changed her tune a bit at a later time, apparently she hadn't bought a new one to replace it. I robbed clothespins from the clothesline, cupped the double layer sheet in a clean barrel, clipped it in place with clothespins then started pouring.

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Gary in Mozarks

03-19-2007 12:02:28




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-19-2007 08:39:25  
Hugh, Don't feel bad, I talk to Farmallhal quite often as we really enjoy their company, (they are really great people) but I get lost alot too. When I do, he speaks louder and uses smaller words and I usually figure it out.



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Hugh MacKay

03-19-2007 12:30:42




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 12:02:28  
Gary: Hal has written me numerous lengthy compositions in the past two years, never had a problem before, thus I can only assume it must have been my inattention.

I also notice you had the old milk filter idea. I presume you talking about the type we used to place in the milk cans or bulk tank. I tried one of those once, and for oil the actual filter area is just too small.

Having said that, I take it you just haven't had the courage to grab one of those bed sheets, your good wife, claims is worn out and needs replacing. They have a strange attitude, when it comes to straining used hydraulic through that old bed sheet, or at least Marg. did. The way she growled about it, I thought I was doing her a favour.

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Gary in Mozarks

03-19-2007 13:38:12




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-19-2007 12:30:42  
I don;t think I would try snatching a sheet off the line, but Ive got lots of old worn out T shirts and that material would do the trick. (My tshirts are made by Omar the Tent maker) I've come up with another idea for cleaning out the system, but I hesitate to mention it on the board for fear of being called crazy. but its not the dumbest thing I have ever done. This brings back memories. My dad got laid off in the recession of 57-58 and showed me a trick they did during the depression for filtering oil He would place a small pan of oil above another pan and laid about 20 strips of T shrit material or socks around the edge. The oil would wick up the cloth trapping the dirt and then drip down. into the lower pan clean.

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old

03-19-2007 07:47:40




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
As the others have said you can let it sit a few days and most of the water will fall to the bottom. Then if you want to hurry things up some stick it in a freezer so it freezes the water in the bottom. Then just pour off the hyd oil. Of course doing that will not get it all but it will get 80-90% of it. I have a friend that has a 450 that has a weak pump and has a loader. After it runs for 30 minutes or so the loader will lift but will not lift a load more then about 200lbs or so. We hooked up a preassure gauge to his system so we know its the pump thats bad since after 30 minutes or so it has all of 500PSI if that much

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JayWalt

03-19-2007 05:28:08




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
Found my original post. Recieved alot of flack for this one, haha. Oh, Dont use a coffe filter, it gets too restricted with oil and takes years to filter, I switched to a fine strainer.



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Gary in Mozarks

03-19-2007 09:15:08




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to JayWalt, 03-19-2007 05:28:08  
Jay, What we really need is one of those milk filters that would fit on a bulk tank or 20 gal milk can and filtered the milk when I was a kid. That would work slick. I wonder if I could find one on ebay. LOL



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chadd

03-19-2007 10:54:41




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 09:15:08  
As far as I know, the bulk tank filters were still available from Fleet Farm or Farm and Fleet in SE Wisconsin when we gave up milking. We still used the milk cans, milk machines that were mounted to the lid of the bucket and hung from the cow with leather straps, pour-in bulk tank, and filter apparatus, for the entire farm until 2001 or so. Our local Fleet Farm got rid of the entire farm aisle, but I think the one north of us still sells them.

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JayWalt

03-19-2007 05:25:31




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
gary, I did this before, actually several times. What I did is used a decent size pot on a portable stove element. You want a controlled heat and a candy thermometer, and keep the oil at about 220, just enough to get the water boiling, but not hot enough to burn the oil. Dont crank the element up, let it work its temp up. cranking the element on high will burn the oil on the bottom. This will take many many hours, but is definitely doable.

Not so sure how well waiting for ice to form or the water to separate will do.

After you heat the oil til no more bubbles form, use a fine strainer while the oil is warm to filter out any junk. You may have to do this several times, as water is still in the system from the hoses, cylinders and so on.

Hopefully you get her figured out.

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JayWalt

03-19-2007 05:29:39




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to JayWalt, 03-19-2007 05:25:31  
ARGHH!!! Stupid LAG!!
Sorry for the triple post =(



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JayWalt

03-19-2007 05:25:10




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
gary, I did this before, actually several times. What I did is used a decent size pot on a portable stove element. You want a controlled heat and a candy thermometer, and keep the oil at about 220, just enough to get the water boiling, but not hot enough to burn the oil. Dont crank the element up, let it work its temp up. cranking the element on high will burn the oil on the bottom. This will take many many hours, but is definitely doable.

Not so sure how well waiting for ice to form or the water to separate will do.

After you heat the oil til no more bubbles form, use a fine strainer while the oil is warm to filter out any junk. You may have to do this several times, as water is still in the system from the hoses, cylinders and so on.

Hopefully you get her figured out.

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JayWalt

03-19-2007 05:24:35




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
gary, I did this before, actually several times. What I did is used a decent size pot on a portable stove element. You want a controlled heat and a candy thermometer, and keep the oil at about 220, just enough to get the water boiling, but not hot enough to burn the oil. Dont crank the element up, let it work its temp up. cranking the element on high will burn the oil on the bottom. This will take many many hours, but is definitely doable.

Not so sure how well waiting for ice to form or the water to separate will do.

After you heat the oil til no more bubbles form, use a fine strainer while the oil is warm to filter out any junk. You may have to do this several times, as water is still in the system from the hoses, cylinders and so on.

Hopefully you get her figured out.

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Hugh MacKay

03-19-2007 03:40:02




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
Gary: Pete and Stinky are right, let it settle then drain the water off. Since your unlikely to get enough frost in MO, this late in the winter, Stinky's solution is probably out.

The product you bought new could have been saturated with water at some point. Those big tanks you see around refineries, all have 3-4 feet of water in the bottom. this is enviormental protection in case of leaks. They are monitored daily, and if a leak is discovered they can keep adding water until leak is repaired or tank is drained.

When product is pumped off for marketing it is taken from about 1' above the water line. If a tank get disturbed or accidentially purged, they don't remove product for about a week.

Get yourself a 20 gallon barrel with a tap on bottom. After adding product, let it settle for a week, drain water, then have a cloth filter for product to go through on the way to clean containers. Been doing this one for years, None of us can afford to throw out new oil.

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Owen Aaland

03-19-2007 05:16:40




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-19-2007 03:40:02  
There are additives in the oil to keep water in suspension. Once these are depleted you will begin to see the water separate from the oil. One of the selling points IH used for HyTran was that it could keep more water in suspension than other brands.

You may as well just keep letting the water settle out and reuse the oil until you get to the point that you no longer get water separation. After that you should put new oil in to maintain the rust prevention caused by water separation. Hopefully by that time you will have gotten the system cleaned up enough so that it no longer plugs the filters.

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sd pete

03-19-2007 00:54:19




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Gary in Mozarks , 03-19-2007 00:04:02  
just let sit in a bucket and the water will seperate.



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Stinky

03-19-2007 03:08:58




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to sd pete, 03-19-2007 00:54:19  
Put the oil in 5 gal pails and bring them up here in Maine and in the morning - all the water will be ice.



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Gary in Mozarks

03-19-2007 13:43:54




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 Re: Another dumb question hydralic oil in reply to Stinky, 03-19-2007 03:08:58  
Stinky, Up in Michigan we used to do that with old cider that "turned" it would freeze except the good stuff we called HOOCH. ah memories



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