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Water in steering gear?

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Glen Wentzell

03-05-2007 19:58:35




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Hi.I posted this question several times,,maybe i posted it on the wrong board...im sorry for being here so often with this same question,,but i really need help.
I have a International 434 diesle, power steering.I was told that i had water in the steering box,for this winter ,when the weather was cold,i couldnt steer it till the tractor was running for a a while to warm up.Then ,after i was able to steer it,,the steering wheel had so much play in it,that it made almost a full turn ,til it would catch to turn the wheels.This steering was always tight,,till this winter.the other day ,,it was warm outside,,and i started the tractor up,,and the steering was free,,but still had a lot of free play in it.Did i brake something this winter,by the steering freezing up?..I turned it hard,,to try to free it up,,after that,,this all happened.How do i get the water out?..Im lost here and need a hand!..Thanks,Glen

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chadd

03-06-2007 09:43:07




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to Glen Wentzell, 03-05-2007 19:58:35  
It doesn't sound like the steering box is the problem to me. It sounds like the power steering assist cylinder was damaged by water in your hydraulic system. The steering box has only gear oil in it. If it froze, I would think that it would never break loose. If the actual steering box is good, when you turn the steering wheel, the arm coming out of the side of it should turn at the same rate and at the same time. If the sloppiness is in there, then you will be replacing a roller that runs in a groove cut into the shaft your steering wheel mounts to or replacing shaft bearings. If that is okay, then the cylinder or the valves for it have been damaged due to the expansion of water as it froze. If the tractor made whining noises and wouldn't steer when started but would slowly loosen up as the tractor ran, I would be almost positive that it was caused by the ice in the relief valves and other parts of the hydraulic system. You will definitely want to get it out of there soon. Our 806 had the hydraulic oil filter housing cracked by ice in the filter housing. This caused the ice and cast iron shards to be run through the aluminum pump because it was after the filter. Needless to say, the hydraulic system isn't as strong as it used to be. Get that water out before it causes more damage. Also, try to find out how the water got in in the first place. Here is a picture of what it did to the filter housing:
third party image

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Glen Wentzell

03-06-2007 11:47:27




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to chadd, 03-06-2007 09:43:07  
Hi,,and thanks!.I looked today at what i think is the steering pump,,,in front to the left(sitting on tractor).It seems to run the whole hydrolic system,,even the back drawbar.Now..when i turned the steering wheel..the wheel seemed to turn upwards like it was unscrewing out of the dash of the tractor,untill it went tight to turn the wheels.Turn it the other way,,and the steering wheel turns downwards ...as i say just as though it was screwing and unscrewing in and out from the dash..Seems that there might be something not catching quite right in there dosnt it?
Glen

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chadd

03-07-2007 04:31:35




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to Glen Wentzell, 03-06-2007 11:47:27  
OK. . . That definitely sounds like a steering box problem. For the steering wheel to start screwing out of the dash, something broke in there. There are two thrust bearings on the steering shaft to keep it located properly. It is possible one or both of those bearings died and now the shaft is able to move in and out. Good luck.



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Glen Wentzell

03-07-2007 10:19:41




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to chadd, 03-07-2007 04:31:35  
Hi ,,,thanks.Are these bearings hard to get at and replace?.Is it costly,,and can i do it myself?
Thanks,Glen



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IH2444

03-06-2007 06:43:54




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to Glen Wentzell, 03-05-2007 19:58:35  
My 444/2444 has an oil filled box up front that is just for the pivot arm. the sctual steering is done by the cylinders. Is that steering arm box what you are talking about?



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Glen Wentzell

03-06-2007 06:59:19




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to IH2444, 03-06-2007 06:43:54  
I think thats it. My steering has just one cylinder on the one side,to one wheel.Its a 434 1967? model. Im going to have a good look to see what i have here. Thank you .



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City-Boy McCoy

03-06-2007 02:54:23




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to Glen Wentzell, 03-05-2007 19:58:35  
I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but this all sounds as though it was easily avoidable. If your tractor had been serviced at regular intervals and fluids changed, it probably would not have happened. If you have owned your tractor for two years and don't yet have a manual, then you SURE ought to have someone servicing your tractor for you annually.
If something doesn't work right, don't force it. mike

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Glen Wentzell

03-06-2007 06:55:52




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 03-06-2007 02:54:23  
Hi..i know what you mean. Actually the transmission was all redone last fall by a service company.They installed a new rearend,and reverse gear..All the oil was renewed,,and everything is full.This happened after that was done..go figure.Thanks,,yes,,i need a manual...im on low income now,,this tractor was givin to me by my father,,i didnt buy it myself..Thanks again.



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georgeky

03-05-2007 20:38:43




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to Glen Wentzell, 03-05-2007 19:58:35  
If it has been leaking and you haven't added fluid it may need some. I assume there is likely to have water in the system causing it not to work in freezing weather. New oil will help this.



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Glen Wentzell

03-05-2007 21:14:43




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to georgeky, 03-05-2007 20:38:43  
Ok..Thanks,,ill have a look at it tomorrow and ill post what i can see.I dont think that this steering system has a place to put steering fluid,,,i think it works right from the hydralics..im not sure,,and i dont know anything till i take a look.Im proberly wrong.Thanks!



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georgeky

03-05-2007 22:27:58




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to Glen Wentzell, 03-05-2007 21:14:43  
I assume the steering draws oil from hydraulic system if water is in there freezing the lift should work slow like the steering. The ice will not flow through the system maybe even clogging the filter. You need a shop manual for your tractor it will explain better than I can. They are available at TSC for around thirty dollars these days.



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Glen Wentzell

03-06-2007 06:51:46




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to georgeky, 03-05-2007 22:27:58  
Yup,,i think thats the way the steering works.I had the transmission redone last fall,,all new oil put in it,,,,then the steering started to get stiff....ill check on what i have for a system.
Glen



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georgeky

03-05-2007 20:17:16




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to Glen Wentzell, 03-05-2007 19:58:35  
Glen I am not to familure with your tractor. If it is hydrostatic steering meaning a hose hooked directly to a box on end of steering wheel that is a hand pump when they leak they will be slow to prime up and cause some play in steering. Does your tractor have a steering shaft from steering wheel to front end or only hydraulic lines?



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Glen Wentzell

03-05-2007 20:33:37




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to georgeky, 03-05-2007 20:17:16  
Hi..When i got this tractor a couple years ago,,the steering was tight ,and wasnt frozen at all in winter,This just seeemed to happen this winter.When it is cold the steering is very stiff,,so that you almost have to stand up to steer. then,after warm up... it is so loose that the steering wheel turns a full turn with play.Im not sure what i have here,for steering,ill check in the morning and post then ...ok?.Its late here....anything that may be broken?Maybe the fluid i seen this fall leaking from around that area was the steering fluid..(dosnt seem to be leaking now)...and you are correct,,maybe it was leaking enough to slow the steering down and make all that play.Im just worried that it didnt break something in there.Ill find out more in the morning ,,and post again.

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Glen Wentzell

03-05-2007 20:05:12




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 Re: Water in steering gear? in reply to Glen Wentzell, 03-05-2007 19:58:35  
This tractor is all over the road when driving it now...the steering wheel turns all the way around,before it turns the wheels....I was wondering if by freezing up,,the steering box was cracked?...there was a small amount of fluid leaking out from around there this fall...i didnt pay much attention to it at the time...maybe i should have.This old tractor,has some kinda power steering as that the hydralic hose comes from the steering ,and under the tractor to the power steering cylinder to the wheel...anyone know whats wrong here?
Thanks again,,Glen

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