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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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last of the true IH tractors

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ed1

02-21-2007 18:11:08




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I allways liked the D/DT 414/436/466 series of engine but heard good things about the Cummings but never owned one. How did the Cummings stack up. In the last of the True IH tractors vs the Case IH.




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billonthefarm

02-22-2007 05:48:56




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 Re: last of the true IH tractors in reply to ed1, 02-21-2007 18:11:08  
There is no bigger fan of IH's 414-436-466 engines than I am. When they put that 505 cummins in the combines I was very dissapointed. Then I quickly changed my opinion. In the tractors they turn slower than the IH engines and still develop alot of power and torque with seemingly little effort. In the combines they run a little faster. So far they have been very dependable. It is known that about every 2000 hrs the injectors should be replaced and that it is possible to have head gasket troubles on the bigger models. I remember standing with a JD servce manager next to his dyno and watching him dyno a early 7140 that less that a year old and everything was factory sealed. It ran at 240hp at rated speed and would just keep climbing as he pulled it down. That same day he also ran a 7120 that had 200hp and showed the same torque curve. He was very very impressed with the torque and power they developed. Those IH engines were the best thing out there in the 70's and 80's but the 505 CDC engine that replaced them is quite impressive and will stand on its own merits. bill

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Hugh MacKay

02-22-2007 03:28:04




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 Re: last of the true IH tractors in reply to ed1, 02-21-2007 18:11:08  
Ed: Only ever drove one 5.9 Cummins and it was in a CaseIH, farmer told me it was rated 95 hp. He also had an 886, one of the early ones with 360 IH American diesel. I used both these tractors on his new 16' disk and also one a large tandem manure spreader.

The 886 would lug that disk all day using TA only if one wanted to slow down. With the Case it was all 3 power shifts in the length of the field, and rarely ever over 3.5 to 4 mph. The owner who had just took delivery the CaseIH, said he'd show me how to drive it. Well, he did with me in cab with him. I shifted the power shift in no.3 and it died before he could get his foot on the clutch. He said, "What did you do that for", quite annoyed with me. I said, "Because that is 5 mph and that is were the 886 was pulling it and never had to use TA only to slow down. It was the same on the big manure spreader.

I suspect the Case, and I've forgotten the model number was only a demo, as the dealer picked it up the next day and dropped off a larger one. I never did drive the larger one. He had a help shortage, and I was only there to help with spring planting.

I will say this however, I find all new tractors lacking in torque compared to those old 06, 56, 66 and 86 series engines. I've driven new Kubotas, CaseIH, New Hollands and Deeres in the past couple of years, and a variety of hp from 80 to 350. The two that impress me are Kubota under 100 hp and NH with M11 Cummins in the big articulated. I quite frankly can't get excited about anything in 100 to 200 hp range. I don't know who they are selling all those big Deeres to, must be city fellas gone farming.

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georgeky

02-22-2007 05:54:26




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 Re: last of the true IH tractors in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-22-2007 03:28:04  
What did Case do to the IH engines. I have a 1980 IH 584 (52 HP) I bought new the engine in this tractor will amaze you. From day one it has pulled 3 bottom 531 IH plow in KY fescue sod easily. In 1991 I bought a new Case IH 585 suppose to have same engine D 206 It struggled with 2 bottom plow. You could hook it to NH grinder mixer and as soon as corn hit the mill it would choke down. They worked on it 6 months on and off never did equal the 584.

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Hugh MacKay

02-22-2007 09:55:01




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 Re: last of the true IH tractors in reply to georgeky, 02-22-2007 05:54:26  
George: The 574 had the 239 cubic inch diesel. I thought the first 584 used the same engine, but the experts on here say no. I remember once looking at a 584 with cab and row crop wheels. I thought what a honey that would be on 9' haybine. it had lots of clearence, thus wouldn't be draging hay along, plus it looked like a nice little power plant for my 4 row air planter and 10' drill. I never did buy one, so I can't say for certain. The 1983 and 84 buyers guides call it a 206, however the 84 series came not long after 86 series. I still think I was being offered a 584 with 239 diesel, could some of those first 584 been 239 cubic inch. Do you know for certain which you have in your 584?

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georgeky

02-22-2007 10:11:20




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 Re: last of the true IH tractors in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-22-2007 09:55:01  
Hugh, I have not seen any 584 with 239 in them Mine has 206 so did the 585 but they are not the same. These two tractors dont even sound the same, and the power difference is remarkable. I have tried out 3 or 4 other 585 & 595 and none of them come close to the genuine IH 584. As for that 9 foot haybine I pull 1209 JD with mine and it works like a charm with it.My dad has a 685 with cab and 239 engine and it will not compete with that 584. It is stock as it came new. It has 5800 hrs on it and other than brakes it hasnt been touched. Thanks george.

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1950 mfd

02-21-2007 22:24:26




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 Re: last of the true IH tractors in reply to ed1, 02-21-2007 18:11:08  
Cummins makes a heck of a motor, but that is all they make. ie- no R&D money has to go to trannys, sheet metal, rearends, etc, that IH had to invest in to make a complete tractor. IH had a very good,dependable motor in the 400 series engines. In fact the dt466 is still used in some IH trucks with newer electronic controls. that proves it is a good design.



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Bob

02-21-2007 23:00:18




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 Re: last of the true IH tractors in reply to 1950 mfd, 02-21-2007 22:24:26  
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but isn't the 5.9 one of then engines developed in the early '80's by Consolidated Diesel, a partnership of Cummins and CASE?



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Steven@AZ

02-21-2007 19:36:41




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 Re: last of the true IH tractors in reply to ed1, 02-21-2007 18:11:08  
Considering the fact that they still manufacture the same basic 5.9 Cummins that came out in the mid to late 80's, I think they have held up pretty well.

I would take a Cummins (5.9 series/6bt/4bt) any day over the DT400 series, personally.



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Bob

02-21-2007 18:44:46




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 Re: last of the true IH tractors in reply to ed1, 02-21-2007 18:11:08  
Clessie's last name was CUMMINS. The engines were named after him.



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