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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Farmall H Applied Physics

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City-Boy McCoy

02-21-2007 15:44:38




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Howdy, Boys: I am about to start operating my narrow front Super H on the farm (there are some hills) and I have a strong awareness of the ability of these row crops to tip over. In giving it more thought, it occured to me that anything which lowers the center of gravity will reduce the probability of tipping over. So, wheel weights should make some difference, even though they are on centers with the rear axles - right? Also, it seems to me, a 3-point hitch (pulling an implement) would also reduce the chance of tipping. Example: it I was pulling a brush hog with a 3-point, the tractor would also have to lift the off-side of the mower, which is down on the ground, in order to tip - correct(?) - whereas with a drawbar hitch, the tractor would already be gone before the clevis twisted enough to lift the off-side of the mower? Seems like the 3-point, in that case, would make the tractor somewhat less likely to tip. Some of you "gray-heads" with experience, please tell me if I am thinking right about this.... Still, I'm not taking any chances with me or my tractor. I have a lot of respect, and fear, of the high center of gravity of these old row crop machines. Thanks. mike

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Nat 2

02-22-2007 05:38:37




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-21-2007 15:44:38  
FEAR will get you into trouble, guaranteed. There is no room for fear around a tractor. Fear means you will be nervous and jerky in the operation of the tractor, and that can often be more disastrous than complacency.

These tractors are not as unstable as you think, even with the narrow front end. In fact, the wide front doesn't offer much additional stability over the narrow because of that center pivot. By the time the front end hits the stop, the tractor is already beyond the point of no return.

Smooth operation of the tractor and matching speed to terrain will almost completely eliminate the risk of rollover in normal conditions. Jerking the wheel on a signifigant side hill, or driving too fast will put the tractor over in short order.

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georgeky

02-22-2007 19:33:29




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to Nat 2, 02-22-2007 05:38:37  
Amen



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old

02-21-2007 18:04:28




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-21-2007 15:44:38  
City-boy did you get the pictures. I got a thing saying a mail delievry problem but not sure if it was you or another one I sent out. If it was you send me another e-mail but make sure your addy is correct.



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City-Boy McCoy

02-21-2007 18:30:26




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to old, 02-21-2007 18:04:28  
Got the email. Thanks. Makes you think.... mike



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old

02-21-2007 19:40:20




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-21-2007 18:30:26  
Yep and an 8N ford sits a lot lower then you H does and if it can slide that way and H can do so just as fast or maybe faster



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1951farmallh

02-21-2007 17:46:48




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-21-2007 15:44:38  
Since you said you haven't been on an H or M in awhile, i would get a feel for it on the flat land before conquering the hills. Like if you were going to mow a field, do the flat areas first so you can get a feel for how the tractor handles with the mower attached. Then mow the hills according to how it handles. When growing up, i first started mowing hay on an H, the boss always told me that if i felt uncomfortable mowing an area to skip it, do what i felt safe doing. "Cuz it's always easier goin back to it afterward then having to drag you from under the tractor"...Have fun using your equipment and be safe.

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City-boy McCoy

02-21-2007 18:29:06




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to 1951farmallh, 02-21-2007 17:46:48  
Thanks. Excellent advice. I appreciate it and will do exactly that. mike



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hugh MacKay

02-21-2007 17:26:54




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-21-2007 15:44:38  
Mike: Three items that lower that center of graviety; wheel tread, solid wheel weights and liquid weight.

You set that H on 72" rear wheel centers and it will be more stable than a utility at 64". I personally would never run a row crop at less than 72" centers. Then add the weight, liquid weight of course is the bast as it's closer to the ground. Wheel weights are good, just a bit harder to get as much weight.

I realize today a lot of folks don't require or want all that weight, all the time. Here would be my approach, buy suit case weights as used on 06, 56, etc tractors. Since your going to dish the wheels out and go with 72" centers, fabricate two racks to clamp on front side of each axle carier. Fabricate them in such a way the entire suitcase weight is below top level of axle caries and wide enough to hold 6-100# weights on each axle carrier. Quick to put on and take off, being ahead of axle they will give a wee bit of front end weight. If you fabricate in such a way, top of weights are level with top of axle carier, that weight will be lower than wheel weights.

I am starting to build these for my 140. I plan on using them for plowing and disking, then I can drop them while doing row crop cultivation. I'm only building mine for 4 weight on each side, and my main concern is traction. I really don't want to bother with chloride, very likely you don't either. If I were going full out bread and butter farming, yes I'd say go chloride for smaller tractors at least.

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City-Boy McCoy

02-21-2007 17:33:07




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to hugh MacKay, 02-21-2007 17:26:54  
Thanks, Hugh. Excellent suggestions and appreciated very much. mike



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CNKS

02-21-2007 17:15:23




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-21-2007 15:44:38  
Not trying to be sarcastic, but if you can't feel the tractor "in the seat of your pants", nothing you do will prevent a roll over. If you think you are in a dangerous situation, you are. No amount of added weight is going to prevent that from happening. Stay away from slopes you consider dangerous. I doubt if the mower on the ground would make any difference. The only safe tractor in that situation is a low profile/center of gravity utility tractor with the wheels as wide as you can get them.

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City-Boy McCoy

02-21-2007 17:30:37




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to CNKS, 02-21-2007 17:15:23  
I understand what you are saying and do not take it as sarcasim. I get a feel for things pretty quickly. However, I have not had any significant seat time on an H or M in 50 years - and I do not want to start out without some refreshment as to where the safe limits are on these machines, as well as some good tips from fellows with more experience than I have. That is what I like about this forum; lots of knowledge and a willingness to share. Thanks, CNKS. mike

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georgeky

02-21-2007 16:49:17




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-21-2007 15:44:38  
City Boy they are a lot more stable on hills than most people think. It is a bad idea to go straight up a steep hill as the front end will come up easier than a wide. It should have good brakes as the front end will slide over hills sideways a little easier. You should see some of the hills I mow here in KY with a M and 15 foot batwing. It keeps the neighbors on edge.



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PatMz

02-22-2007 09:58:39




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 Don't go diagonally across that hill! in reply to georgeky, 02-21-2007 16:49:17  
If the hill is too steep to go straight up, it's too steep to cross diagonally.

If you must climb a steep hill try backing up the hill, or better yet, go around the hill.

A link to North Dakota State University tractor safety tips: NDSU Ag Extension Tractor Safety



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georgeky

02-22-2007 10:37:06




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 Re: Don't go diagonally across that hill! in reply to PatMz, 02-22-2007 09:58:39  
We are talking about tricycle front ends. I have a lot of experience on them and they will cross a steeper hill than they will climb safely. You cant back up a hill with a mower on it unless you turn your tires around they only pull good in one direction. I do not recommend anyone to try these hills unless you know your tractor well. All machinery has limitations and when you learn what they are you can better know what you can and cannot do. Thanks george

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City-Boy McCoy

02-21-2007 16:53:51




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to georgeky, 02-21-2007 16:49:17  
Thanks, and you be careful too. mike



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Janicholson

02-21-2007 16:14:43




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-21-2007 15:44:38  
I'm not sure what you call a hill, but the H can be relied on to stay upright pretty well. If the wheels are dished in, and slid in, they need to be respected. if the wheels are dished out, and about a hand width out on the axles, they are nice and stable. Pure side hill, is less dangerous than going at a shallow angle down hill while turning up hill. That position has the most wt. across the line of the imaginary line between the front tire, and the rear on the down hill side. Up hill is not as troublesome. If I had an inclinometer (from an RV store) to look at I would be nervous at 15 degrees going down hill as above. If I was straight down, or up no wories till about 25 degrees. Going slow is good, turning sharp is bad. Wheel wts on the rear and liquid (favorite is windshield washer fluid, or Beet juce) also incerase confidence. My brothers and I drove Hs around country road gravel corners (90 degree) wide open, just letting the tires drift in the stones. THIS is NOT recommended, but they are more stable than appearances would indicate. If you want to really know, jack one back tire up on a flat concrete surface. Let it down on a platform scale. Then jack it some more and build up under the scale one foot and get a measure of the Wt. Jack and weigh, until the scale has fallen about about 50 % in the wt on that tire. Serious tilt can occur. Be safe, JimN

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City-Boy McCoy

02-21-2007 16:37:14




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to Janicholson, 02-21-2007 16:14:43  
Jim: Thanks for the good advice - particulaly about going down a hill at an angle and turning back up at the bottom on an angle. I had forgotten (to mention) liquid in the tires. Of course, that would be a great help. And, yes, I plan to dish the wheels out as well as move them out on the axles. You make me feel better about using the tractor - but, I'm still a chicken! Cluck-cluck. mike



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old

02-21-2007 16:48:19




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-21-2007 16:37:14  
Its always better to be chicken and safe then to be a fool and try something and not be able to live past the try. I can show you pictures of a 8N and a hill side. The guy got lucky that it slid into a tree other wise he would probably be dead. Drop me an e-mail if you would like to see them, I'll be happy to send you the pictures and explian better what happened

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GeneMO

02-22-2007 07:41:15




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to old, 02-21-2007 16:48:19  
Hi old, you recovering from the ice? My dad turned our 44 H over when he was a teenager. From his description of the accident, he was turning onto our gravel road, off of the paved road. 90 degree turn to the right. Going wide open in 5th and turned it too sharp. Perfectly level ground, just too fast. He ended up laying across the axle housing. Of course it wiped out the steering wheel, muffler, etc. He was just banged up a little. I learned from his lesson.


Gene

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georgeky

02-22-2007 19:44:37




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to GeneMO, 02-22-2007 07:41:15  
In February of last year my 17 year old son turned my 666 over on flat ground. He was traveling way to fast with a Allied loader raised to high and hit a plow furrow and bang it was on its top instantly. Luckily it threw him clear and he was not hurt. It didnt even tear up the tractor to bad. There is no substitute for common sense and experience with your machine.



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old

02-22-2007 07:55:56




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 Re: Farmall H Applied Physics in reply to GeneMO, 02-22-2007 07:41:15  
Yep doing ok here still need to do some work to the roff but I also have to wait on weather thats warm enough both during the day but also at night. As far as flipping a tractor 99% of the time it could be avoided if the person would just think about what there doing. Almost all tractor accendents could be avioded but people do stupid things at time and that get them into trouble

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