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460 and 560's as pulling tractors

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Charlie

01-31-2001 05:32:21




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I've seen a lot of info lately about the problems IH had with the rear ends of 460's and 560's. I've also seen in this forum people asking questions about these tractors for tractor pulls. My question is for anyone who pulls with one of these tractors - how do you keep the rear ends from failing during a pull. It would seem to me that tractor pulls would put the most stress possible on a tractor. One of the best pulls I've ever seen was with a 460 and it didn't fall apart.

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jason

04-18-2004 19:32:49




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 Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Charlie, 01-31-2001 05:32:21  
we have a 460 pulling tractor its alcohol injected supercharged and we blew 2 rearends in 2 years first rearend we took the top casting off the housing and mounted aluminum for weight reduction and the casting broke. and we have had 3 bull gears break i was told the industrial 460 rearend is built a lot heavier a guy i know had a 460 superstock and he didnt have any problems as a stock tractor we broke 1 bull gear

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Dan

01-31-2001 16:19:22




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 Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Charlie, 01-31-2001 05:32:21  
Those tractors will take pretty much anything you can dish out at a tractor pull. My grandpa bought a 1963 560 diesel new and started farming with it and tractor pulling with it at that time and it still does both to this time. We haven't done anything to the rearend but replace a gear with a chipped tooth that was just a freak deal. He pulled 5/14" plow, a 14' Mounted vibrashank digger, an 8 row corn planter also pulled a 10' chisel plow with a 10' straight disk behind it. The only problem he had was pulling the drawbar in half, and the TA got a little weak.

I pull a 460 with a 301 diesel in it that runs real well with no trouble and also a 560 diesel turbo. I don't think you'll see any rearend failure especially if it's a black dash model, which all of ours are, The rearend deal just gave those super great old tractors a bad rep right off the bat. I think you'll also find the 60 series tractor make super tractor pullers by the way they balance out. They also can take high rpms and need some good rubber under neath of them to make them really work.

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dick

01-31-2001 12:24:16




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 Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Charlie, 01-31-2001 05:32:21  
IH apparently had severe problems with rear-end failures on the first 60-series tractors produced. This is discussed in some detail (pp. 144-6) in Randy Leffingwell's book, International Harvester Tractors . According to his book the most severe problems were seen in the first 3000 tractors produced, and the reengineering needed to fix the problems appears to have reached the production line by late 1959. IH also had a series of recalls to fix the problems in tractors which had already been sold. So I guess if you have one of the later tractors, or one of the earlier tractors which was repaired properly, the rear end should not have any more than normal problems.

Quoting from Leffingwell's book, revisions to the 60-series rear ends included "bull gears, pinions, and brake shafts", later expanded to "differential bevel gears, revising tapered bearings, and redesigning the entire differential case". "It is known" Tractor Product Review Committee secretary A. J. Butler wrote, "that final drive failures, particularly bull gears and pinions, are caused by failure of the present ball-type inner rear axle bearing."

The major problem seems to have been that IH light-heartedly grafted the old rear-end designs from the H and M tractors onto the much more powerful 60-series tractors without doing the proper engineering to make sure they were capable of handling the increased power. The main vulnerability seems to have been to sideways forces, and replacing the ball bearings with tapered bearings fixed most of the problems. However, galling ascribed to poor distribution of lubrication was also noted and apparently lead to much of the other redesign noted above.

After rereading this material, I'd say the problems in the 460 and 560 models were severe enough that they got fixed. But in the case of some of the earlier tractors in this series, the fix(es) were made long after the tractor left the factory. At this late date, any 60-series tractor almost certainly had its rear-end problems (if any) addressed long ago.

What might be of interest and concern to some other Farmall owners is another quote from internal IH material in Leffingwell's book: "the marginal status of the final drive components on the Farmall 300, 350, 400, and 450 series tractors was also becoming apparent after one, two, and three years of service." As far as I know, these problems were never systematically addressed by IH. At this point, I'd say that anyone owning one of these tractors should keep this in mind, and make sure that the tapered bearings eventually used in the 60-series tractors are used in any rebuild of their hundred- or 50-series tractor's rear end.

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cecil hascall

09-25-2001 22:07:04




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 Re: Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to dick, 01-31-2001 12:24:16  
regarding international not addressing the rearend or final drive problem with their mta,300 350 400 450, they did announce the availabity of a new differential conversion package for these prior models. These packages were the same ones used in the 460 560 rework program. information takeen from Ken Updikes book International Harvestor Tractors 1955 to 1985



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Wardner

01-31-2001 14:56:31




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 Re: Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to dick, 01-31-2001 12:24:16  
You could include the MTA's with the 400's and 450's. I took all of the guts out of a late 560 rear frame and put them in one of my MTA's. Changed the axels too. I did it primarily for the 1st gear ratio and differential ratio. I now have a very low first gear and a top speed of 11 mph. It is just the way I want it.



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Red Button

01-31-2001 10:16:58




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 Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Charlie, 01-31-2001 05:32:21  
Rear end problems on 460 and 560 not a big deal after the updates I but turbos on maney 560D's and made 560's out of 460's did not have problems Had 3 560d's running 105 horse in the field puling 5/16 plows and 5/16's in northwest IA not easy had 1 460d runing 105 horse in the 60's for 1 guy as pul tractor.



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Wardner

01-31-2001 14:42:03




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 Re: Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Red Button, 01-31-2001 10:16:58  
How do you make "560's out of 460's"? Are you talking about changeing the crank, rods, and kits?



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Wardner

01-31-2001 17:09:17




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 Re: Re: Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Wardner, 01-31-2001 14:42:03  
Do you have any old turbo kits that would fit my 660D?



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Jim

01-31-2001 08:52:21




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 Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Charlie, 01-31-2001 05:32:21  
The only problem with the 560 rear end was caused by bad oil. An IH oil rep. told me if IH would have used water it would have lubricated the bearings better. Of all of the tractors I tear down in the salvage yard the M to 560 have the best gears of all the tractors we do. As for the 460's they dont fair as well. As a mater of fact a 560 rear end is heavier than a 220 Allis Chalmers in most of its parts.

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Denny Frisk

01-31-2001 07:58:41




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 Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Charlie, 01-31-2001 05:32:21  
The problems were the result of LONG TERM loading of the tractors in heavy pull situations. IHC rated the 560 as a 5-bottom tractor when they came out. It was a 2nd gear load which put a TON of stress on the gears, shafts, & especially bearings. Most 560's ended up pulling 4-bottom equip in 3rd gear. with decent durability records. Tractor pulling is a contest of ULTIMATE STRENGTH, and durability is secondary. They get worked on constantly anyhow looking for an Edge over the competition. The same bearings, shafts & gears get stressed to their ultimate strength and fail for other reasons.

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Alvin

01-31-2001 19:17:59




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 Re: Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Denny Frisk, 01-31-2001 07:58:41  
A 560D is a 5 plow tractor?? Up here where I live all I could pull was 3-18's..in 3rd gear with a turbo--the other 560D without, it was 2nd gear and smoke..The turbo tractor is still running-no moter work yet,many many hours,meter quit at 8000 hours. now only has the easy jobs.



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Phil Auten (TX)

01-31-2001 05:54:29




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 Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Charlie, 01-31-2001 05:32:21  
Charlie,
It is my understanding that the main problem with these tractors when they were new, or nearly new, was with the ball bearings in the rear axle area. There was a factory "fix" for this problem and any tractor repaired by an IH dealer was to have a triangle stamped in the S/N area of the tag. If the repair was done properly, there were no more problems. At least that's the story as I've heard it many times from different folks.

Phil

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Greg Lussetto

01-31-2001 06:59:31




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 Re: Re: 460 and 560's as pulling tractors in reply to Phil Auten (TX), 01-31-2001 05:54:29  
Whoever is telling you this stuff is nuts. My family has two turbocharged alcohol 560's that we run in the light super stock class. The only aftermarket part we have in the transmission is the input shaft (in place of TA). Everything else is off the shelf, stock parts. I have run my tractor for seven years and have only replaced one set of bullgears and axles (twisted the splines inside bullgears) and a few sets of spider gears in the differental. In our class, I do not of any JD that does not a long list of aftermarket gears and parts.

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