The following is an email that I sent to Tim concerning my thoughts on automotive type paints while trying to put things in some type of cost perspective. As time permits, I will try to assemble my thoughts on surface preparation, priming, filling pits, etc and post them here for information and consideration.

Tim, good info. I needed to know if I should steer you in the direction of automotive type paint or stick with industrial enamels or "tractor enamels" that you see in agricultural supply places. If you had said that you really did not want to go over $100, I would say stay away from the automotive stuff. I see no real reason why you can't go with the automotive paint though (it is superior, even the low end stuff) and keep under $500. You could go over $500 too but it is simply not necessary for anything but show projects that never see real world dirt or scratches or unless you just "want the best" and are willing to pay for it. Besides, the relatively rough cast surfaces of your tractor such as the engine block, drive housings, etc are not conducive to obtaining that mirror finish that the more expensive auto paints are capable of.

Today's automotive paints come in at least two basic formulations that are used on cars and trucks by the refinish industry: enamels and urethanes. There is also a polyurethane that is used on trains, planes, fleet vehicles and high end autos...big $$$ there!

The absolute best is the polyurethane. No staying under $500 here! DuPont's Imron is in this class.

The second best are the urethanes...they have great gloss, color retention and chemical resistance. The high end ones are available only in automotive colors and it is unlikely you can get those mixed to any older tractor colors, except by actual sample analysis. There is a lower end version in this category that you can get mixed colors for tractors. It is debateable if you could stay under $500 here. Certainly not in the high end, but possible in the low end. This is what much of the auto industry is using now in basecoat/clearcoat configuration. Some are also available in single stage (no clear coat) configuration. DuPont's ChromaOne and PPG's Deltron are in this class at the high end. At the low end is DuPont's Centari (depending on how it's mixed) and PPG's OMNI MTK.

The third best is the "hardened" enamels. These are (now-a-days) acrylic enamels with "hardeners" that improve gloss, color retention and chemical resistance. These hardeners basically modify the enamel into a semi-urethane. They are the most popular for general usage but have some significant safety issues that I will discuss later. If you have the right safety equipment, you can come in under $500 here, especially with the low end stuff. DuPont's Centari (depending on how it is mixed) is at the high end here with PPG's OMNI MAE at the lower end. While some may argue that these additives actually make the film harder and more resistant to failure from abrasion, my own experience tells me that it is not a very large difference. I once painted my 8' Fischer snow plow with an expensive polyurethane (PPG's Durethane at the time) thinking that it would last a long time. Was nice and pretty but I have to say that the rocks and dirt from plowing a dirt road scraped through that stuff as easy as if it were Rustoleum or some other hardware store paint...waste of money for me to use it for that application.

The fourth best is straight acrylic enamel without the hardener. This really is an excellent paint and you certainly can come in under $500 here. It is not "bad"...just not quite as good as the hardened version. Let's just say the gloss, color retention and chemical resistence is "good" where the hardened enamel is "very good" and the urethane is "excellent". PPG's OMNI MAE and DuPont's NASON FastDry are in this class.

The last real category is not really an automotive paint anymore. It is called, generally, an alkyd enamel. It is no longer mixed for any serious automotive use. DuPont's Dulux used to be popular in this category in the '50s. It is the most economical. I would put it in the same category as the "tractor paints" and the industrial enamels such as Rustoleum and "Impervo" by Benjamin Moore that you can buy in hardware stores and home centers. Some of the tractor paints may even have "hardeners" available...Dulux used to. These are still good paints, but on a relative scale with the above concerning color and gloss retention and chemical resistance, I would put them as "fair". Whereas the automotive paints above are formulated for spray only, these alykds are formulated for either brush or spray. If you had no ability to spray, these are what I would recommend. It would be similar to the original factory paint on your tractor...superior to anything you could get from a spray can IMHO. I cannot recommend spray cans to anyone for even the cheapest of projects...I simply think they are a waste of time and money. It seems you may have already found that out :o). The chipping that you mention though is indicative of poor adhesion and may have been due to inadequate surface preparation for the topcoat.

Don't mean to write a book here. However, I do want to give you some background so you will see the basis for what I wind up recommending.

I would like to recommend the hardened enamel but I really think you should stick with the straight acrylic...the fourth best stuff above. The reason has to do with safety. The hardeners have in them chemicals called isocyanates or polyisocyanates that are hazardous to breathe. The same holds true for the urethanes and polyurethanes. The chemical cartridge respirator that you have is not effective in treating these materials. If you read the very fine print on a hardener label you are likely to find that a full face air-supplied respirator is called for. If you have seen photos of painters in a spray booth painting a car wearing a complete hood and an entire white protective "space" suit, this is the reason why. An air-supplied respirator has a separate compressor, usually non-lubricated, that supplies fresh, uncontaminated air directly to the facepiece. This equipment is fairly expensive. As I recall, I paid several hundred dollars 15 years ago for mine. The reason I got mine was I sprayed some hardened enamel on a couple of cars with only the cartridge style respirator. Bad scene. I spent two or three days coughing severely and not being able to take a deep breath...it wasn't worth it. It is for this reason that I cannot recommend the hardened enamel to you...I do not think you have the necessary equipment to properly protect your repiratory system. It is your choice however.

You do not need any type of spray booth. I use an open air one...the great outdoors. I can only spray on good days that are not windy and I don't like to paint in direct sunlight. But I am not in the "business" and can work my few jobs around the weather. The only thing detrimental to this besides scheduling is the probability that a few bugs will get in the paint before it dries. That will happen and there is not much you can do about it except leave 'em there. If you try and remove 'em you'll just make things worse. Don't do any painting during the heavy mosquito season :o).

The paint that I intend to use on my own tractor (hopefully this year) is the same one I will recommend to you. It is an acrylic enamel that can be used with or without hardener. It is made by PPG under the OMNI label and is available at any automotive paint supplier that carries the PPG line. If you want to use a similar DuPont product for whatever reason, that should be the subject of a separate discussion. My experience is with PPG and DuPont. There are others with similar products but I don't know enough about them to make an intelligent recommendation.

I assume you are going to use it on a Case? Do you have the Case paint code for the color you want? You will need to confirm with your supplier that the OMNI enamel can, indeed, be mixed to the color that you want.

For technical data sheets from PPG on this enamel go here:

http://www.tricitypaint.com/docs.html

and download the documents identified as "MAE" and "MH101" under the OMNI section. They are in Adobe pdf format. This will give you some technical info about mixing, applying, drying, etc. You will find that successful application of automotive paints of all kinds is VERY dependent on ambient temperature. They have to be mixed with the appropriate reducer (thinner) for the range in temperature expected during application. Sometimes even a 5-10 deg F difference is enough to make a good job turn bad. The PPG OMNI MAE has four different reducers to use, depending on temperature. It is very important to follow the label directions exactly, especially in an outdoor spray area where the temperature is not finely controlled.

I think you should plan on having about 3 gallons of sprayable product for the topcoat (3 coats). I assume you will disassemble to the maximum practicable extent and do fenders, hood, sheet metal pieces etc, individually and separately from the block, transmission and final drive assembly. This piecemeal process winds up wasting quite a bit of paint in overspray...so I think 3 gallons is not unreasonable. For the OMNI system this should equate to about $200 for the topcoat. This includes basic paint and a couple of different reducers for that quantity. If you choose to use the hardener, that will only add about $30.

I will try to give you my opinions on your other more specific questions concerning surface prep, rust treatment, priming, filling pitted areas, etc. in another separate email. Just make sure your spray gun is an external mix one. It probably is, but make sure because internal mix guns really are not intended for auto paints...I think you would be disappointed with the result.

For now,
Rod

Follow Ups:

Re: Re: First paint job , need advise mark bishop 06:59:41 03/13/04 (0)
Re: Re: First paint job , need advise Keith B 07:27:28 03/04/02 (0)
Re: Re: First paint job , need advise Keith B 07:27:10 03/04/02 (1)
- Re: Re: Re: First paint job , need advise Rod (NH) 20:43:57 03/04/02 (0)

Post A Followup

Name:
E-Mail:
Subject: Re: Re: First paint job , need advise
Comments:

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:

Email Notification: If you check this box, email will be sent to you whenever someone replies to this message. Your email address must be entered above to receive notification. This notification will be cancelled automatically after 2 weeks.

Discount Prices for Parts! You can help support this extensive website by purchasing your tractor parts, manuals and merchandise from our [ Antique Tractor Store ] or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ More Info ]

Home | Manuals | Parts | 12-Volt Kits | Carburetors | Radiators | Engine Kits | Videos | Books

Know someone interested in antique tractors? Tell them about this site!

Your EMail Addr
Your Name
Friend's Email
Friend's Name

Copyright © 1997-2008 Yesterday's Tractor Co. - A Washington State Corporation
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy
TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

About this site - Yesterday's Tractors is your one-stop source for antique tractors. If you use antique tractors, collect antique tractors, or just enjoy looking at antique tractors, welcome to our site! Join more than 275,000 other classic tractor enthusiasts from all over the globe. We have many resources for antique tractor enthusiasts available including photos, classified ads, more than 24 antique tractor forums, show guide, values, specs and much more. Bookmark this site and come back often. Thanks for stopping by! Feel free to use our feedback form to send us your comments, suggestions and ideas.