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Tim A. 03-06-2005 19:10:56 12.106.223.124 5274 Report to Moderator	When we moved to our new place 3 years ago, the coastal bermuda hayfield was invaded by Johnson grass...the seed comes in with the irrigation water. I am having a problem getting rid of it...I have tried wicking it with roundup...seems to kill the tops but it comes back next cutting and spot treating...not enough time to do the whole field. I found this chemical by ferti-lome..."Crabgrass, nutgrass and Dallas Grass Killer." Supposed to kill Johnson grass as well in bermuda grass lawns. I know chemicals are all about 'labeling', but how long would I have to turn my hayfield into a lawn, to safely use this to get rid of the johnson grass. My hay is strictly for horses. Active ingredients are: Monosodium acid methanearsonate 13.2%, inert ingredients 86.8%, Total arsenic (as elemental) all in water soluble form 6.1%. The label also says "Do not feed treated foliage to livestock or graze treated areas." There is no time limit given. I plan to call the company, but don't expect to get any useful information there. Also, if this is not recommended, any other suggestions. I have taken soil samples, fertilized and aerated to promote coastal growth and have seen improvement, but still have a long way to go? Thanks in advance, Tim [Reply]   [No Email]
hay4horse 03-08-2005 21:03:09 205.188.117.7 5313 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Tim A., 03-06-2005 19:10:56   MSMA has a 1-year grazing restriction. Plateau has a very short grazing restriction - can't remember exactly, but guessing more like 1 or 2 weeks. Both can be sprayed while bermuda is active, though bermuda may be stunted by Plateau. Plateau is very expensive - in the order of $20/acre depending on application rate. I bought some year before last, and would assume I could still get it at my local chemical supplier though it might be special order. If you go the route of spraying early while the bermuda is still dormant, you might check Gramoxone Extra vs. Roundup and compare the price. I used Gramoxone last March 15 in north Texas with good results.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Tim A. 03-09-2005 14:22:58 12.106.223.124 5327 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to hay4horse, 03-08-2005 21:03:09   I checked with my local chemical guy again and he said that Plateau was no longer available to them. He said BASF also makes another chemical called 'Journey" which has the same active ingredient that Plateau has along with roundup...at a cost of $26.50 per acre. Just like Plateau, it has no grazing hold off and a 7 day haying hold off. Seems pricey, but doing the math, if I could make descent square bales vs. having to round bale due to the Johnson Grass in it, I would more than make up for the cost of the chemical...so, I am seriously considering it. Since you are from North Texas also...I am from near Iowa Park...some people call this grass johnson grass...it is similar, but most people call it water grass. However, researching it on the internet, I can't quite figure out what it is. It grows in clumps normally in wettest parts of the field, has wide leaves at the base, then the shoot is thin and grows to about 3 ft or so high...and has round, flat sticky seeds on it...do you know what its real name is?? I am at a loss... I will check out the chemical you reccommended...Thanks Tim   [Reply]   [No Email]
Sand Flat Bob 03-11-2005 08:34:24 208.187.64.90 5363 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Tim A., 03-09-2005 14:22:58   Tim A, what you have is not Johnson grass, but Dallisgrass. Look it up on google. Very common in hay fields here, south of Fort Worth.   [Reply]   [No Email]
hay4horse 03-09-2005 20:02:23 205.188.117.7 5340 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Tim A., 03-09-2005 14:22:58   I hadn't heard of Journey before, but sounds like it would be a good substitute for Plateau. Good idea to price it out and consider doing square bales instead of round. Not sure you can justify making a round bale out of anything and selling it for a profit - but okay if you feed your own animals. My experience is that it pays to square bale everything - even 60/40 bermuda/johnson sells good in square bales. Have two 9-acre fields side by side - one is pure bermuda for $4/bale and the other is 'mixed' bales for $3.25. Have plenty of mixed-bale customers that feed cattle under special circumstances, like when a cow is sick up at the barn, or when it's just handy to throw a few squares out instead of chasing off with the bale fork thru the mud to get a round bale 2 miles away on a winter night. Also have plenty of horse customers who switched to the cheaper mix after I ran out of premium, and they still say the horses love it. Also plenty of female customers who like lightweight bales - mine barely weigh 50 lbs. I think that works out to $160/ton premium and $130/ton mixed. Also have MANY customers who comment they prefer my twine instead of wire, especially women who aren't comfortable using 'tools' (wire cutters). I'm a small timer, only 1500 bales last year, and that was off just one cutting, thanks to the June rains. Sold out the last of my 800+ bales of the mixed hay in mid February ...the same stuff that I seriously considered bush hogging and forgetting, back in July. Glad I didn't! I'm located in southeast Grayson county. Sorry, I'm no good at identifying weeds so can't help you on that one. Good luck, and let me know how the spraying goes. David E.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Tim A. 03-09-2005 20:39:27 12.106.223.124 5341 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to hay4horse, 03-09-2005 20:02:23   I have 9 acres total in coastal. Half is quite infested with this 'water grass' and the other half is mostly descent...one side irrigates from pipes under ground and the other from a ditch, so I think the seeds come in easier through the pipe. Last year was not a good year. 1st cutting I cut with little to no chance of rain and we got over 2 inches before it was baled...so, all round bales for cow hay. 2nd and 3rd were better. Square baled the good half and made a little over 600 squares at app. 65lbs. The other half, all round bales. I also bought and resold about 800 bales from my neighbor. This year should be better...the quality and yield has been improving each year with better management. Will also be custom cutting 15 acres right next to my field and another 7 acres across the road...so, that should help the bottom line as well. I am too picky about my hay and if it is not perfect, I discount it...maybe too much. I never have a problem selling out...and am normally one of the first around here to sell out. This will be my third year doing it myself...and with more experience I will get better at the game. Thanks for the info...will post how things go. Tim A.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Txsprigger 03-10-2005 05:40:45 70.113.61.238 5344 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Tim A., 03-09-2005 20:39:27   Tim, I believe you have dallisgrass. Growing in wet areas and sticky seedheads gives it away.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Txsprigger 03-10-2005 12:25:02 24.153.213.58 5352 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Txsprigger, 03-10-2005 05:40:45   try this dallisgrass   [Reply]   [No Email]
Tim A. 03-10-2005 17:24:20 12.106.223.124 5356 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Txsprigger, 03-10-2005 12:25:02   THAT'S IT!!!!! Other pictures I looked up did not look like what I had....but these pictures are exactly what I NEED TO GET RID OF!!!!! THANK YOU! Tim   [Reply]   [No Email]
thurlow 03-09-2005 18:07:33 65.255.98.3 5334 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Tim A., 03-09-2005 14:22:58   Sounds like either barnyard grass or maybe texas panicum.......   [Reply]   [No Email]
Txsprigger 03-07-2005 06:08:40 165.221.129.1 5277 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Tim A., 03-06-2005 19:10:56   A few years ago, a chemical called 'Plateau' came out and was effective on controlling johnsongrass on established bermuda pastures, but it seems the manufacturers(BASF)have quit selling it to individual producers and now sell it only to government entities--counties, highway departments, county extension personnel. It is widely used for road right-of-ways. You may or may not have some luck in obtaining some. Otherwise, MSMA will work, but it may be hard to find and it may not be labeled for pasture use. That will be your call. If these two things don't work, I think you are pretty much stuck with the johnsongrass.   [Reply]   [No Email]
txblu 03-08-2005 06:12:47 209.151.113.195 5287 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Txsprigger, 03-07-2005 06:08:40   If the JG is taller than the coastal, you might try a ROUNDUP wick. It's a pipe with small holes in it and a rag or something that can be saturated by fluid seeping thru the small holes in the pipe. Extends out either side of the tractor; preferably behind so as it doesn't get all over the tractor and tires (which would put it on the bermuda). Idea is to set the pipe just above the bermuda. You wipe it on the JG leaves as you drive by. The Roundup will kill the JG and not affect the bermuda. Mark   [Reply]   [No Email]
Tim A. 03-07-2005 19:31:50 12.106.223.124 5285 Report to Moderator	Thanks! in reply to Txsprigger, 03-07-2005 06:08:40   Thanks for the inputs...I am going to try and spray roundup before the coastal takes off, hopefully this will help some and continue to spot treat. I called our local chemical dealer and after telling him what I had...he said that it was MSMA! And the reason it was no longer labeled for this type of use was the arsenic in it... Since I don't graze my field, it would probably be fine after the spring rains, but to me it's not worth the chance of something going wrong. I will do some research on the 'Plateau' that you mentioned. Thanks Again, Tim   [Reply]   [No Email]
thurlow 03-06-2005 19:27:25 65.255.98.13 5275 Report to Moderator	Re: Johnson Grass Problem in reply to Tim A., 03-06-2005 19:10:56   MSMA......chemical of choice when we had nothing else, 35-40 years ago. Based just on my memory, think the johnson grass would have to be very short.....less than 6 inches......for it to have a chance. Ask your extension agent or dealer for a 'better' chemical. Depending on where you are, the johnson grass should be up and growing before the bermuda, allowing you to use one of the many grass killers available. Ask a local expert.   [Reply]   [No Email]