Hey Bob......AND more info on my dead tree question

Just read the replies to my post last night about the dead tree. BOB, in order to save you time, skip this and go to the end and I'll answer your question.

Now, my actual question last night, that didn't get answered, was how would I find something like this listed in the Statutes. By that I mean would it be under personal liability, homeowner liability, liaility for dead trees, who's responsible for this mess, etc, etc, etc. I've looked everywhere I can think of to look under every heading I can think to look under and unless it's about a tree and a public road I can't find anyting.

Now for those that asked for more info, for what it's worth, here goes. The tree as it stand s now is about 3 feet around at the base and still standing probably 40 plus feet to the to, so even in death it is stil a big tree. Plus it's even larger scale wise because of where it sits. It started showing signs of being dead three years ago and started dropping small limbs. Over the winter it progressed to one about 8 inches in diameter and 30 feet long dropping. It only took down one fence panel and damaged two others, so it's not worth messing with the insurance over a $40 repair. I've talked to the homeowner where the tree actually sets and he knows it'd dead but feels it's on an easement and is the responsibility of the HOA to take care of. HOA rules say it's the homeowner's responsibility and are fining him every month but he won't pay the fines or get the tree taken down. HOA says they can't and won't do anything else. I can't even get them to make the guy clean up the dropped limbs, etc from the tree that are keeping me from getting to the outside of the fence to repair it. I've talked to the guy and he's nice enough but he drives a truck so is rarely at home so he really doesn't care. I know he wouldn't mind if I took the tree down but I can't afford to get a tree service to do it. I could do it myself but the only access to the tree is through another neighbors yard and it would have to be dropped into their yard also as there isn't room in the yard of the guy that owns it due to it being wooded. This means damage to their yard from tires, limbs digging in when the tree drops, etc, etc all having to be repaired on top of taking down the tree. Basically way too much money to spend right now for me given the current economy...and that's IF the other neighbor would even let the tree be taken down in their yard. The city might be able to do something in a few more months when they get their ducks in a row over the area being annexed last year but for right now they don't care about it either...I've asked....

Basically it's all a matter of someone elses problem becoming mine and there isn't a damm thing I can legaly about it that isn't going to cost me more money than it's worth at the present time. I am basically just trying to get to know the law so I can cover my a$$ if and when the time comes.

BOB, simple answer, it's a rental house. My wife bought it before we got married an lived there for nearly 8 years. When we got married we moved into mine, IN THE COUNTRY. We kept her old place as a rental because selling short to the tune of over $30,000, due to the economy tanking, would have been outright stupid...and I might be dumb but I ain't stupid.....

Makes sense!

I CAN'T imagine having to live in a place like that! (HOA controlled.)

I'm not sure there is a good answer to your original question.

You'd need to study city code, which governs this. I doubt township, county, or state code would be of much use, tho it may be worth checking out the county...

And of course you have a HOA handbook, the 'rules' of this should be in that book? Every HOA will likely be different, so nothing we can help you with - you gotta see what's in there.

After the tree falls, your insurance co and his insurance co would likely fight it out. Would probably be interesting to inform his insurance co about this. You wouldn't want to get _your_ insurance co excited about it tho....

In fact what made me think of this, some enterprizing lawyers have gone to notifying a city about all the cracked sidewalks in a few towns. City code reads that until the city knows about the danger, they are not responsible for it, so the first person that breaks a leg or gets a smashed head from an uneven sidewalk is outa luck; after that it's a known danger & the city gets it fixed pretty quickly. Well, the lawyers sent a long letter to the cities notifying them of each bad sidewalk; then they could sue the cities on the first occcurance, as it was already a 'known danger' because the exact location of each bad sidewalk was known.

Wonder if notifying his insurance co in an official way, and perhaps the HOA insurance co if they have one, of the known danger would get some action - letting a known danger sit there is inviting massive damage claims. Liability insurance is about covering the unexpected; it gets real big if you have to cover the known....

I'm no lawyer and thinking through such a notification is probably best left to one, donno if my idle thoughts would mean anything or be good or bad idea, but just kinda thought it up as I was reading your message.

--->Paul

Well, at least you now know what to do if YOU get a letter from your HOA telling you to do something: you can safely ignore it because they won't do squat.

If it's on your neighbor's property, and it's an obvious hazard, it's his responsibility to fix it, easement or not.

You could do nothing. But then if it falls and injures somebody or damages your tenant's property, you could find yourself a defendant in a lawsuit. So that's not a good option.

My suggestion is to offer to split the cost of tree removal with your neighbor. You could even try to split it three ways with the HOA, but I wouldn't bother; the HOA is clearly run by idiots who wouldn't know a decision if it bit them on the a**.

If the neighbor won't go along with splitting the cost, then your next step is to talk to a lawyer. I'm not sure if lawyers know how to cut down trees, but they certainly know how to bill. For this reason, it might be cheaper to pay the full cost of tree removal rather than engaging an attorney.

If you decide to go the "do-nothing" route, I would at least send your neighbor and the HOA letters advising them that the tree is an obvious hazard to life and limb, and that they'll be held responsible for any further damage it causes.

Lets say the tree is alive and doing well,,, what part of it that is hang'n over your property is your problem,,, you can take limbs off your side but not enuff to kill the tree are lets say if you kill the tree he can sue and recover the value of the tree (maybe are maybe not)... Its tricky so I would consult a lawyer.. If I messed with the tree their would be some kind of written agreement from all affected party's other than the good old boy system that rarely works any more... If I could not get a agreement then a judge would make the call... I sorta have then same problem but its my tree that's the problem,,, I gave the other other guy permission to take out the tree are trim it,,, he first trimmed it then decided to take the tree out... I am the one that brought it up,,, as much as I would like to see his rental gone I did not wish for the tree to damage his property are hurt anyone...

The tree was their before both of us were alive,, at the time his rental was built I spec their were no setback requirements... If the trees dead its his to deal with,,, I would be out to have the tree evaluated if its ruled dead its time to have certified documents in hand and go from their...

Served on a HOA board many years ago. HOA powers pretty much limited to putting a lien on the property, so not much will happen until the neighbor goes to sell.
Here in Houston the local paper often has a legal column, where a lawyer answers write-in questions. I know that I've seen this discussed several times over the years. As others have stated, damage from a live tree is an act of God and your insurance is responsible. If a neighbor's dead tree causes you damage, he or his insurance is reponsible.
I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that there are several possibilities:
1) send neighbor a certifed letter, then there is no question later on about who knew what and when. Take lots of pictures with dates on them.
2) check out the threashold for small claims court. You might pay to have the tree removed and sue for recovery in small claims court.
3) I would think that calling your insurance agent might be a good idea. I don't know how you would find out who your neighbor's insurance agent is, but I would think that your agent can have his legal staff write some threatening letters. They've got lots of lawyers on their staff that should be interested in looking out for you - so they won't have to pay out claims.
4) I've had large trees removed around my house. A tree service can climb a tree, rope some sections off, and take it down a piece at a time, dropping it in a very limited space. If the tree has been dead a long time, a bucket truck may be required, adding to the expense. Make sure they have current workman's comp and liability insurance - get the name of their insurance agent from them and call the agent yourself to verify.
5) hire a lawyer.

Wayne, do a search for North Carolina Hazardous Tree laws. This will bring up the information that you seek.

I used to do tree work, but not in NC. I know what the law used to say in my state, but I"m not current with it so I won"t make any comments.

You may be wise to seek the advice of an attorney, but finding one that is well versed in tree law might be tough to do. The International Society of Arboraculture might maintain a list of qualified attorneys.

I've never had any luck finding specific laws on ANYTHING. The legal code is usually written in "legalese" so using common terms to find simple laws just doesn't work.

In other words, they don't say "tree" when they mean "tree," and good luck figuring out what term they did use to mean "tree."

All you can do is wallow through the municipality's legal code, page by page, word by word, until you find what you're looking for, or you don't.

I don't think you're going to find anything that applies in your situation. There isn't a law for everything.

Even if you do find something, good luck on getting someone to enforce it. The town council will send him some nastygrams, maybe levy some fines... All he has to do is ignore it, just like he's doing with the HOA.

Right now, all you can do is pray the tree doesn't fall on someone on your property. Since you knew about the hazard, you would be held liable and your insurance company would abandon you.

you have the right to trim branches where hangs on your side. that is about it. Otherwise when the tree falls ,hope the wind is blowing it away from your property.

After it falls, again, its a malee legal game of ""whose really liable" for damages..

Can't help with legal advice, but a tree that's 3 ft around at the base is probably about 10 inch dbh; doesn't sound like much of a tree. Some parts of the world would call it a bush.

I hate to ask, but what is HOA? Home Owners A is what? I live in the country.

Home Owners Association. Usually found in condominium complexes and newer developments. The HOA handles the maintenance of "common" areas in the development such as entry landscaping and turf, snow removal, insurance, etc., and make sure that the CCR's (Covenants, Codes,(sometimes listed as Conditions, and Restrictions) are followed within the development.

We have a sort of HOA. The only rule I can remember is "no derelict construction equipment". Just about everyone in the neighborhood has been in violation of that one at one time or another. Only time it even got close to being enforced was when I had to insist that my neighbor get his broke down skidder out of the road, because I couldn't get past it to get out if it rained real hard.

Thank you. We don't have that here.

Sorry for the confusion, it's 3 feet in diameter, not three feet in circumference. Still not a big tree as compared to some but where it sets even if it was swapped out with a pine that wasn't but 3 feet in diameter it would still be a huge PITA to take down.

Unfortunately I have experience and advice regarding trees abutting property lines.

The law is really quite simple.
For live healthy trees or trees that have shown no prior obvious signs of disease or damage:
If and when they or any part of them fall, whose ever property they fall on is responsibly to clean them up. Whose ever property is damaged it is their home owners insurance liable to pay for the damages.
No matter if a tree from my propery falls over onto adjacent property. The basis for this is that tree damage results from a "Act of God".

BUT dead or obviously diseased and dangerous trees become the liability of the property owned upon whose property they exist.

So simply send a certified letter to the property owner of the dead tree, CC the HOA and the local Town clerk. IF you really want to bust chops, look up the public records on the owners property and also CC his mortgage company and his home owners insurance co. if you can find that out. Many times that is on the mortgage record.

Then you are covered as to any future damage AND if you can get the info to their mortgage co. most times the mortgage co. will force the property owner to mitigate the risk/liability.

I have had "tree" issues with 3 different neighbors and all of them have been negligent in removing the risk. One was forced to remove a tree that was DEAD after I got a hold of his homeowners co. He obviously feels I am the AH and thankfully will never talk to me again.

Good luck,

Pete