Tractor Advice Needed

knightstead · Mar 25, 2011

I had the local dealer come pick up my MF 135 diesel because the three point stopped working and I dont have the time or knowledge to fix it. When the mechanic was loading it up he told me that he thought either a linkage was bent or the control valve was bad and it should be $300-500. He checked the dipstick and said he didnt think there was any water in the hydrualic fluid. The next day he called from the dealership and says the pump isn't building any pressure. I told him I needed the tractor, so keep working and notify me when you figure out the problem. He calls two days later and said that its fixed, needed a control valve, and my bill is $1,000. He also put new rings on the pump. He said water froze and caused this problem. I just bought the tractor from this same dealer six months ago, so obviously they had not changed the fluid. I have talked to the manager and gotten nowhere, I think they're trying to stick it to me since I'm young. How would you handle the situation? And does the pump need to be touched to replace the control valve? My friend, who's a mechanic doesnt think so, but he's not very familiar with tractors. Thanks for the help, Dan.

MSJfromMN · Mar 25, 2011

Alot can happen in 6 months. Unless it came with a warranty I don't think there is much you can do.

knightstead · Mar 25, 2011

No, it didn't come with a warranty. What I'm so frustrated about is that I didn't okay a thousand dollars worth of work. It is crazy that a dealer didnt bother changing the fluid.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 25, 2011

I think if the dealer has any integrity, they should at least offer to cover half the cost of the repair. There is no way to check the internals of the tractor. Sometimes when taking things apart there are other problems to be found. I would be very polite with the dealer and try to reason with him. In this economy, I'm sure he'd like to keep you as a customer. If he starts giving you the run around, then you could look into things like seeing if the local TV station has a trouble shooter or writing a letter to the editor of the newspaper that everyone could see. There are some effective ways to pressure companies to do the right thing. Yelling and screaming usually isn't one of them. You can also go above the manager right to the owner of the company. Good luck! What ever happens you have a fantastic tractor that will last you a lifetime.

aFORDable · Mar 25, 2011

If the hour meter works and you haven't put many hours on it since you bought it I would at least go in (instead of calling) and talk to the dealer. You might get some help and you may not but it won't hurt to try. How many hours have you put on the tractor since you bought it? Does it sit outside or under shed? (if outside he might say allowing it to sit outside is no fault of his since water seeped in). At least try to see if they will help you on the cost. Also, without giving them a dollar limit you are somewhat at their mercy as long as it is reasonable. My 2c fwiw.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 25, 2011

If the fluid looked good, there isn't a big need to change it. The damage could have started a long time ago and finally bit the bullit. It's possible they did change the fluid too but didn't want to mention it, for obvious reasons. Yes, they should have phoned you when the repair was double what they originally guestimated.

tjdub · Mar 25, 2011

I'm just speculating here, but my guess is that after splitting the tractor and checking out the linkage to the control valve, everything checked out, so it was obviously the control valve that was bad. They got the new valve put it on and got the tractor back together, but guess what, it still didn't work. NOW they check out the hydraulic pump, and find that your hydraulic pump is not working which was probably the only problem all along. They fixed the pump and now you have a new rockshaft control valve you may or may not have needed.

If this is what happened, I can easily see how this went overlooked, and I wouldn't blame the mechanic here. It's easy to make an assumption that when a customer is asking you to fix the 3pt control, there's a problem with the 3pt control. Anyway, nobody will ever know now if that old control valve was also broken or not. It could have been (especially if there was water in the system). Also, they called you before going over the original quote, so you can't blame them for jacking the price up.

The $1000 price seems very reasonable for splitting a tractor and rebuilding a hydraulic pump, plus parts. I'm wondering if they cut you a deal on labor because of the screw-up?

knightstead · Mar 25, 2011

The hour meter does work and I've put 35 hours on it since I've once it. Tractor sits under a lean-to.

Rick(MN) · Mar 25, 2011

Couple thoughts. You cant jump to the conclusion that the fluid wasnt changed. Secondly, even if it were changed, 6 months is plenty of time for water to get introduced to the system. I agree that a $1000.00 bill in the first 6 months of owning a tractor is a bitter pill to swallow. By the way you tell the story, you did authorize a $500.00 dollar repair and when that wasnt going to fix the problem, you did say "keep working". I can see how that could be interpreted as an OK for more extensive repairs. That said, if you were my customer, you would have gotten a call at the point I knew what was wrong. I do suspect the difference between "buttoning it back up" after finding the problem and fixing the problem was only a couple hundred of the total bill.

rustyfarmall · Mar 25, 2011

(quoted from post at 11:29:04 03/25/11) I had the local dealer come pick up my MF 135 diesel because the three point stopped working and I dont have the time or knowledge to fix it. When the mechanic was loading it up he told me that he thought either a linkage was bent or the control valve was bad and it should be $300-500. He checked the dipstick and said he didnt think there was any water in the hydrualic fluid. The next day he called from the dealership and says the pump isn't building any pressure. I told him I needed the tractor, so keep working and notify me when you figure out the problem. He calls two days later and said that its fixed, needed a control valve, and my bill is $1,000. He also put new rings on the pump. He said water froze and caused this problem. I just bought the tractor from this same dealer six months ago, so obviously they had not changed the fluid. I have talked to the manager and gotten nowhere, I think they're trying to stick it to me since I'm young. How would you handle the situation? And does the pump need to be touched to replace the control valve? My friend, who's a mechanic doesnt think so, but he's not very familiar with tractors. Thanks for the help, Dan.

Let me see, the dealer came out to your place, loaded up the tractor, hauled it back to the shop, did the repairs, changed the fluid, and now your tractor works again, and he charged you only $1,000? I think he was being pretty easy on you. After all, he has utility bills to pay, insurance on his building and equipment, license and registration on that truck, mechanics to pay, parts men to pay, accountants and book keepers to pay, and most likely a family to raise and feed. What did it cost you the last time you went to the grocery store or filled the gas tank on your car?

knightstead · Mar 25, 2011

I do understand that the dealership has lots to pay for but I can't understand their business practices. I believe I should of gotten a call asking if I wanted them to repair it all the damaged parts, and notified that if they do so, the bill would be $1,000. It's only a 10 mile drive to the dealership, so that didn't cost them much time or money.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 25, 2011

Rethinking this, the dealer may have given you a break. You said you need the tractor. That could easily be taken as saying, "Go ahead and fix it". I took a welder in to get repaired and asked the shop to call if it was going to be over $500. I didn't here anything so I called back a couple days later. They said it's fixed and I asked how much? $800. I was a little ticked at them but they got it working and put it on a load bank. They said everything was up to spec. and I practically stole the machine. I could turn around and sell the machine for twice what I have in it but then I'd have to find another one. Your tractor is no use if you can't use it. Enjoy your new 135.

bison · Mar 25, 2011

I think that you got off cheap!,it could have been far worse.
With a used tractor anything is possible,you're on your own unless they waranty it.

Just saying

Mike M · Mar 25, 2011

The dealer likely thinks its crazy the new owner didn't change the fluid as soon as they got it home.

The dealer isn't going to put any money into it.

I don't know about the why's or wherefores but either way $ 1,000 doesn't go very far at repair shops anymore.

MSJfromMN · Mar 25, 2011

The dealership has a problem if you didn't ok the work. Have you paid for it?

I don't think the dealer is obligated to change the fluid before it was sold. As others have said the moisture in the oil could have happened at any time.

knightstead · Mar 25, 2011

No, I haven't paid for it, planning on going there tomorrow. The dealership isn't obligated to change anything, but i thought a reputable dealer would change the oil and hydraulic fluid. Manager said they never change them, just check both and top them off if necessary. This might be a common practice, but sure sounded nuts to me.

MSJfromMN · Mar 25, 2011

I was a service manager at a car dealership and we had to be within 10 or 20% of the estimate. I cannot remember which one. That was law.

If it were me I would ask them to meet you somewhere in the middle.

Rick(MN) · Mar 25, 2011

I missed the part about them hauling it in for you. I'm assuming you had them hauling it back out as well. In this area, even if it is only 10 miles....there is $200.00 of your bill already.

Lou from Wi. · Mar 25, 2011

Knightstead. We can understand the shock of geting a larger bill for repairs then estimated. Having said that, i was going to comment on why dealers doesn't change fluids /filters. The price of special oils and filters doesn't come cheap even to the dealer. Mechanics time in doing all the fluid changes/with filters. lube etc all cost money and time. Every piece of trade in equipment doesn't come with new oil /filters. lube job etc.Like buying a used vehicle, it also isn't on the dealers list to do all the mechanical needs to make the unit worthy of a new customer purchase.A reasonable person has to believe those items haven't been touched and it's then up to the new owners to bite the bullet . Now that the tractor is back up to service. Just enjoy and take care of it. Regards LOU.

Mark-Mi · Mar 25, 2011

You are dreamin if you think a dealer is going to change all the fluids in a 40 year old tractor before they sell it.
Price sounds about right, it needed to be done. Move on.

Allan in NE · Mar 25, 2011

You'd better call that dealer back and tell him "Thanks".

He did you a favor at $1,000 and probably "ate" half the repair bill because he sold you the tractor to start with.

Just my humble opinion,

Allan

Pair-a-dice farm · Mar 25, 2011

I have to agree with the others, now days $1000 don't go very far. The only thing I can add is it's usually a bad idea to take the word of a delivery driver or mechanic on cost. They may be very good at what they do but most don't keep up with the price of parts.

tlak · Mar 25, 2011

So if a shop is having trouble making payroll he's allowed to charge you more?

730d se · Mar 25, 2011

There are always two sides to this senario, but I agree that some dealers over charge.
Yes they have bills to pay, payroll to meet, utiliy bills, on and on. So, if they do not know or care to run the business properly, they need to get out and let someone else run it.
I garantee that some dealers would charge a million dollars just to answer their phones if they could get by with it. They think the "fix" to all business issues is to increase prices. It is the reason many of them are out in the street.
Business is a relationship. Both parties have to give and take. It does not work long if only the customer is the one that is always giving.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 25, 2011

THEY are ALLOWED to charge YOU whatever they want.

Keith Molden · Mar 25, 2011

I guess my first question would be, have you kept it in a building or have you had it parked outside this winter? It's quite common for rain to get by the shifter boots and trans dipstick not to mention that they will get condensation. It doesn't take alot of water to freeze up a hydraulic pump. The price was about right or even a little cheap for parts, labor, and pick up and delivery of the tractor. Having said that, it's your obligation to tell them to 1. fix it, giving them implied permission to do whatever's necessary to get your equipment running properly for you. Or 2. tell them not to go over a certain amount without your permission. Just my thoughts, Keith

Anonymous-0 · Mar 25, 2011

Let me see, the dealer came out to your place, loaded up the tractor, hauled it back to the shop, did the repairs, changed the fluid, and now your tractor works again, and he charged you only $1,000? I think he was being pretty easy on you. After all, he has utility bills to pay, insurance on his building and equipment, license and registration on that truck, mechanics to pay, parts men to pay, accountants and book keepers to pay, and most likely a family to raise and feed. What did it cost you the last time you went to the grocery store or filled the gas tank on your car?[/quote]

Yep, nailed it right there.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 25, 2011

(quoted from post at 18:24:59 03/25/11) You'd better call that dealer back and tell him "Thanks".

He did you a favor at $1,000 and probably "ate" half the repair bill because he sold you the tractor to start with.

Just my humble opinion,

Allan

Yep, you nailed it too.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 25, 2011

I really think the dealer did the right thing, you needed the tractor and told him to keep working, he fixed it. This is why people who can not repair their own equipment buy new, $60-$100 an hour will eat you up fast. I just put a $600 pump on a $1200 tractor, a shop would have charged $1200, rock&hardplace Find an independant shop or learn to do it yourself is my advice.

brian(MN) · Mar 25, 2011

Repairs always cost more than expected-that is a fact of farming. $1000 repair bill is nothing now days-$1000 wouldn't even buy me a combine tire last fall. Count your blessings-they came and picked up your tractor and returned it in a few days in working order. 6 months is a long time to try to get it under a warrenty. Did the bill of sale state any warrenty?
Brian(MN)

60 acre hillside · Mar 25, 2011

from yourmessage the driver of the truck did not give you an estimate or a bid. He gave you a SWAG when he knew nothing of the problem although he gave an idea of what the problem could be. I have known of truck drivers trying to make customers think they are a mechanic. The one picking up and delivering tractors is selom a mechanic. SWAG (Silly Wi;d A=== Guess}

fixerupper · Mar 25, 2011

A dealer can't just do a patch job and send it out the door. His reputation follows his work. If he would have done a $300 job, you probably would have had more problems in the near future. Then you would have been climbing on the dealer for doing a shoddy repair job.

Back in January I bought a used tractor that I thought was OK and ended up spending $6000 on it after the purchase. That's after the dealer went part way on some of it but I wanted it done right so I don't have to worry about it again. Jim

Ultradog MN · Mar 25, 2011

I don't think you are going to find a whole lot of sympathy here on this board.
Most of us here fix our own tractors so the idea of having the dealer pick it up, fix it and then return it to your home is kind of alien to begin with.
I didn't read the entire thread here. But did the invoice give you a breakdown on how much $ went for parts and how much for labor?
That could tell you a lot right there.

JayinNY · Mar 25, 2011

Must happen everywere. I took my NH 489 haybine gearbox out for a rebuild and the NH dealer called me and said $480 to rebuild it, after they looked at it, I said ok. First, they dident even call me to let me know it was done, second, then I go to pick it up and they tell me $600! I dident say anything to the guy, but I was a pi$$ed. They know what it takes to rebuild a gear box, they had already opened it up and looked at it, so it wasent like they were guessing what was wrong. What some dealers do is call the person with a repair amount, and let the customer make the call if he wants it fixed or not. At least your tractor is fixed I guess. J

bison · Mar 25, 2011

People that don't know nothing about fixing always seem to think any bill is to much.
If i get a guy in my shop that thinks he's gonna be over charged, i tell him,hey,you're free to stick around and watch what it takes to get the job done, or you can take it some where else.
It usually shuts them up fast.

msb · Mar 25, 2011

Is there any way to know if there was no water in the oil when you bought the tractor? Lots can happen in 6 months. Answer that question and you will know to pay the bill with a smile on your face and move on. When we assume, we make an aZZ out of U and me.(Benny Hill)

Mike Bock · Mar 25, 2011

i used to work at a dealer we never changed fluids unless it was part of the deal when tractor was negotiated on should of looked tractor over better when you were buying it ,buyer beware, it was traded off far a reason,1000 $ doesnt go very far if you bought a used car 6 months later would a used car dealer warenty it no

kyhayman · Mar 25, 2011

I hate to disagree but when you said keep going you gave the go ahead to fix it. Now Im being like the truck driver but a 600 dollar repair, 200 dollar fluid and filter change, 200 pick up and delivery makes a pretty even thousand bucks. Unless specifically ordered, and paid extra for, I've never bought a used tractor from a dealer that came with new hydraulic fluid. Usually I can get them to change the engine oil and filter, and the hydraulic filter but the rest is as is, where is. I think you got off pretty fair all in all.

Don-Wi · Mar 25, 2011

Honestly, you told him you needed the tractor and to keep working. $1000 for that kind of work isn't bad, and you make it sound like you didn't care about the cost at that point. Atleast that's the impression I'd get if you said that to me and I was fixing something for you.

If the boots on the shifter are bad, water can easily get in there. Maybe not enough to freeze and do damage to the pump and control, but who knows? Maybe they did change the oil when the had it but the damage was there and the previous owner traded it before it became his problem.

No Warrantee, not their problem. I cna understand you're a little miffed by it, but join the club. We've all had bad experiences and most of the time you just have to suck it up and move on.

Donovan from Wisconsin

Anonymous-0 · Mar 25, 2011

You gave him an open cheque, your observations should have been relayed to him before the repair but how many times does one think of it after the event [that's me].

JDseller · Mar 25, 2011

The hydraulic pump on those MF135 is in the bottom of the transmission. The three point control valve is attached to it. A new control valve is just under $400 for an OEM part from AGCO. The oil would be another hundred. Pickup and delivery would easily be $200. If they replaced the rings in the pump, replaced the control valve and then adjusted the linkage. It could very well have taken four to five hours of shop time. If they charge $70/hour that would be $300 or more. I don"t think you got over charged on the total bill.

Does the three point work well now???? You bought a forty year old tractor that more than likely had the original pump and control valve in it. So if it works like new than you should get many more years of service out of it. Also on these ,pump in the sump systems, it is easy to mess up the pump/control valve in cold freezing weather. I have seen some that would get water from condensation in the transmission oil.

Drain any water out late in the fall before any freezing. If you loosen the drain plug real slow you can usually get any water to run out before the plug comes all of the way out. Do this after the tractor has been setting for at least over night.

tlak · Mar 26, 2011

So their shop rate plus some mark up on parts isn't what I can expect to pay, I also have to pay how far they're behind on their bills.

WGM · Mar 26, 2011

Seems to me you're trying to get something for nothing.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 26, 2011

There are a few things in life that you can depend on. Drop a bowling ball on your foot and it's gonna hurt. (don't ask) Around Presidential election time, people will get in fights on here. And, buy a 40+ year old tractor with NO knowledge of how to repair it, send it to a dealership with "just fix it" instructions, and you'll get a bill for those services.

I've done the exact same repair as you described. If I had to pick up and deliver when done, you wouldn't get away with a $1000 bill. It'd be a bit more.

Dealers do NOT do a complete service on used equipment UNLESS you specifically request it, AND, you PAY FOR IT.

Otherwise, welcome to my world.

hd6gtom · Mar 26, 2011

I grew up on a farm and realize every tractor is going to need some repair at some point in its life. I have purchased used tractors from individuals and dealers. The first thing I do when getting them home is change all the fluids. I would walk into the dealership and write them a good check. They arnt trying to beat you out of anything. YOU told them to do the work. They did the work you authorized, they need to get paid. Then you deduct the cost of repairs from your farm income tax next year.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 26, 2011

You told them to keep going,so they did.The tractor is fixed so pay the bill & be glad that was all that was wrong.Or you can go in and whine because they fixed your tractor but it cost to much and next time you need it fixed or some advice they might be able to do it in a week or so.You can't have it both ways.

LJS30 · Mar 27, 2011

(quoted from post at 19:29:04 03/25/11) I had the local dealer come pick up my MF 135 diesel because the three point stopped working and I dont have the time or knowledge to fix it. When the mechanic was loading it up he told me that he thought either a linkage was bent or the control valve was bad and it should be $300-500. He checked the dipstick and said he didnt think there was any water in the hydrualic fluid. The next day he called from the dealership and says the pump isn't building any pressure. I told him I needed the tractor, so keep working and notify me when you figure out the problem. He calls two days later and said that its fixed, needed a control valve, and my bill is $1,000. He also put new rings on the pump. He said water froze and caused this problem. I just bought the tractor from this same dealer six months ago, so obviously they had not changed the fluid. I have talked to the manager and gotten nowhere, I think they're trying to stick it to me since I'm young. How would you handle the situation? And does the pump need to be touched to replace the control valve? My friend, who's a mechanic doesnt think so, but he's not very familiar with tractors. Thanks for the help, Dan.

You got away with a bargain!!!!!!! My ex-mechanic charged me $2000.00 just to split my 290, fix some issues, close it back up. After all this my hydraulics still don't work and he says it may need a new pump. You got very lucky.

Leroy · Mar 27, 2011

I am not going to comment on the price. What I noticed was keep working and when you find out what the problem is give me a call. Sounds like he finnished the job without making the call. I think any of you on this site that does this stuff would agree that when a customer says when you find the problem give me a call, I think you would give the customer that call and show him what needed to be done and then get the OK to continue. I do not think you would skip that call to make the customer mad and that is what his repairman did, skip the requested call. How much goodwill a call can make or make the customer find a different repairman. Just one phone call to keep someone happy.

toadady · Mar 27, 2011

(quoted from post at 23:54:20 03/27/11) I am not going to comment on the price. What I noticed was keep working and when you find out what the problem is give me a call. Sounds like he finnished the job without making the call.

and if he had made the call what would the owner have said? "oh stop and just put it on the scap pile"
, $1000, bux sounds cheep to pickup, split,change parts,and put back together, and deliver,

as for the bust, could have been that way before the dealership got it, using it just made it worse, could have been why the prevouse ower sold it,

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