OT cave in with humans trapped

I had a class a few months ago on cave ins,and humans trapped in the trench.

Just so everyone has the updated procedure it is probably different than you would expect. You never uncover anything but the guys face and head. AND never with a machine, as it increases compaction, and often the heads are removed by someone trying to do what is best.

A shovel is the only tool used, and never remove them until it is timed with the ambulance arrival, or chopper. There are very few hospitals equiped to treat these folks---even though they are out of the trench, and talking to their loved ones, saying they are OK. They are on a very fast race to death. This is not a error on my behalf saying they were talking to their loved ones, and seem to be OK.

This is the procedure, even though many folks have been so proud they got them out in only three minutes, they probably are guilty of killing the person in the trench. (THIS HAPPENS VERY OFTEN)

This is usualy uncalled for, as the trench should no doubt be secured as the laws state, but we all know that costs extra time and labor.

I probably can not answer all the questions, but I can give anyone a phone number of the lady who teaches the class. She is a super nice lady, but if she sees a trench with someone in it, and no shoring, she will make the call.

She is involved with all the cave in deaths in Iowa if I got it right.

I think the rule is, a foot down needs a foot sideways, or something like that.

I have run backhoes alot, and I guess I gambled alot more than I probably should have.

I was trapped once only knee deep, and I can't explain how much pressure there was. I was almost certian I could just lift my legs in that mud if you would have asked me before hand.

I was not the operator, or even involved before hand, rather was at the job site, where the ambulance was at the same farm for a cave in twice within twenty four hrs...same hole only six foot deep.

Yes, I read some about that.. The pressure needs to be decompressed... Something like a diver that has come up too fast... It surprised me, normal thinking would be to get the person out ASAP, but I was wrong..

Does that include people buried in corn standing up as well?

hope others respond ...lost a good man in our area couple years ago whole wall of dirt slid over ,, back in 1980 , in his 1st year of marriage,, my cousin was killed in similar incident .. he was amazing on a backhoe.. shortly there after we were coating a wall with foudation coating that was ready to cave ,, I refused to go in the trench, nearly lost my job,, but completed the work with a long wand ,,, no way i woudl want to wreck concrete wall forms after a lot of rain ,,..

I don"t think so-you are talking about a diver getting the "bends"- from rising from ocean depths too fast. Deeper depths, certainly nothing like being in a grain bin. That being said, excessive pressure on body parts can have a mortal effect- saw that overseas on a fellow paratrooper in 1967, when a jumper hit the trees, got hung up in them, he tried to get down, was hung up on his water wings. (We wore them on every jump since we jumped by a water hazard) His body circulation was restricted by straps on his equipment- the water wings, (lifesaver packs) and when we cut him out of the trees, after he hung there for 1 1/2 hours, his kidneys were overloaded by the built-up fluids. Army sent him back to the States, to Walter Reed hosp in DC, where he died 4 days later. I had 22 jumps out of a perfectly good aircraft (everyone can, or should, jump from one that is about to crash)- that is any paratroopers normal terminology. Had only one incident in all those jumps- standing on the top of another parachute, 800 feet off the ground, and training kicks in...know that you have 3-4 seconds to decide , do you walk off the front, or the back , of HIS, before YOURS collapses!....apparently made the right choice- I"m still here.

I'm a commercial diver, you can't get the bends unless your breathing air under pressure. Basically the bends is nitrogen coming out of solution in your blood. Think if it this way shake up a bottle of soda, open it fast it explodes, thats the bends. Open it in slow controled increments, thats decompression. S.O.P. underwater when digging something out is 3 to 1. 3ft out for every ft. of depth. I've personally been in a 25ft deep hole 100ft underwater digging out a broke over conductor after a hurricane.

Expect that there will be a lot of emphasis on this topic in the coming year. We've been studying up hard on all the confined space regulations due to considerable changes in them effective January 1st. Per OSHA there now must be a QUALIFIED rescue team at stand-by at the entry, not just on call. There are several other revisions but I can't list them all here. The company I work for has several verticle bins up to 40' deep that need clean out on occasion. We just purchased a machine that works in a manner not unlike a "weed whacker on steroids" that allows us to clean out a bin top to bottom without entry. Expensive yes, but one 'involved' entry muchless with a mishap could more than justify the expense. OSHA is taking on more and sharper teeth so I'm predicting there will be many more alternative methods developed to safely deal with safety issues of various tasks, but not in the old fashioned way. Will this pinch the smaller operators? Likely. But as one of my former bosses used to say 'dead is still dead'.

The short answer is no. And for the record, I was ticked off when we were offered a class on grain bin rescue. Simple.....rope and come a long, or man power...what could be simpler?

It was one of the best classes I ever took. If a 200 pound man is buried to his chest, it takes nine hundred pounds of lift............YOU spine seperates at fifty.

Troubles usualy involves grain out of condition, and a person should know better, but we all know how that goes.

During the demistration we had several guys that we buried up to their waste. Not a single person could get out on their own, and very few that were in just over their knees.

The answer as of now, is a very expensive tool...It looks like a culvert, that comes in three pieces, and interlocks as you shoe it down around the person. Then scoop the corn away from the person.

Walking on old upside down plaastic milk cartons, was one of the biggest suprises of the training..works great, and no compaction to the trapped person.

I'm not for government control any more than the next guy, but I think every grain farmer should be forced to take the class.

I prefer that they simply make a video, and show the farmers what is going down..........Once they realize the isssue, most farmers would take the class on their own. There was not a single person that I talked to after the class that regreated going.

There was stupid parts........like doing knots that unless you did them every week, you could never remember them. Our fire training involves the same knots............not a single person could tie the fancy knots in a emergency situation.

Few people realize all the training that firemen should take, as they must respond to so many different emergencies. Like anyone ever taken a class on how to tear apart all the different cars, and trucks without injuring someone, or killing them? No standards in the industry to speak of for disarming air bags.

The learning is all good, but it is so over powering to the mind. And grain bins are getting bigger every year.

If you grain farmers have the class offered, give it a go........you will be surprised how little our old thinking was right.