Ford 5000 hydraulic system

I have a Ford 5000 tractor that has three sets of remote hydraulic ports. The loader uses two of these sets. One for the bucket and one for the lift/drop. The remaining set I hooked a motor drive for a snow blower chute to. So far I have not been able to make the chute turn.

Is there a valve that has to be turned to activate the third set of hydraulic ports? All of them appear to be factory installed.

Thanks!

Rick

Are you positive you have the quick dis-connects to the snow blower fully engaged? Moving the control handle on the remote should make chute move if hyd motor is good.

If I hook the motor to the set that operates the bucket the chute will turn OK. It's when I have the chute hooked to the third set that nothing happens. It's like the third set is getting no pressure. I was told by the dealer that third set was for some optional draft control system. Past that the dealer didn't have much more to offer as to what made it work. It would be great to get that set working as now I have to disconnect the bucket to use tha blower chute, then reconnect to use the bucket. Really getting a workout this winter!

Rick

Does the tractor have a 3 spool remote valve mounted under the seat?

I will desribe as best I can.

There is a valving block that has two levers that run two of the remotes, these remotes and levers are under the right side of the seat they are both normally hooked up to the loader. One lever for the bucket and one for the lift/down pressure. Then there is the quadrant for the three point. on the right side of the valving block there is a knob that apparently regulates the speed of the action(turtle/rabbit symbols). There is another knob that is either in or out and does not turn. This knob I have no idea of its function.
Then there is another set of hydraulic outlets under the left side of the seat but no third lever. This is the set I have attmpted to run the chute from.

Rick

Would there happen to be two valves side by side for the loader which is fed from two valves under the seat. one lever held in postition by a chain & the third set of hyd couplers is behind the seat?
Uncle Carl's 4000 and now 4630 is this way both were bought new
unhook the valve from the chain and the second lever under the seat will control the remotes behind the seat.
hook the chain up to hold the first valve open and then the two valves for the loader will work.

post a picture and we can help more
Good luck
Ron

The 3rd set of remotes is plumbed very special, to only work in draft mode, it will lower & raise a semi-mount plow with the 3pt lever. It is a Ford feature, extra on some tractors. I did not know a 5000 could have that, you must have a late model one.

You do not in any way, shape, or form have 3 remote hookups. You only have 2.

That 'extra' one will not ever work as a 3rd one. It's just hanging there waiting for a semi-mount plow to work only in 'draft' mode to keep the plow level for you with less fuss & adjustment on your part. It also requires a special Ford hyd cylinder that needs the shaft turned in one direction to line up with an arrow - it does not work with a regular hyd cylinder on the plow. There is likely an extra knob or lever to fine-tune the 'draft mode' for the proper response.

My dealer figured well over 80% of these sytems were never used. I plowed with my 7700 & not TW-20 since 1980, and have never ever bothered to set it up.

It's a throw-back to the Ford 100 series and the 3pt draft control. It goes one step farther, and includes controlling the back end of a bigger plow.

You only have 2 remotes on your tractor, and will need to rig up an electric control to power a 3rd set, or some other deal. You won't never get that extra set of couplers to run anything as a 3rd remote.

--->Paul

Paul nailed it. That's Ford's Load Monitor system. First available in '72, I think.

Sounds like a Load Monitor. If you pull the ASC valve (black knob) on the right side somewhere... and then lift the three point it will simultaneously rotate the shute. I suppose through a series of events of screwing with the ASC valve you could turn the shute in one direction...
As noted, it was for semi-mounted plows and only has pressure in one direction.
Get a splitter valve for one of your other remotes and plug the blower into that.

Rod

Thanks for the info. No need to look further! I can get a 12 V electric chute motor for trade on the hydraulic one from the dealer.

The 5000 is a 1971 model diesel.

Thanks Again
Rick

Rick,

In my opinion, your problem lies in the fact that you are using the tractor's rear remotes for your loader functions. Not only is it very ackward to use your loader in this fashion, but it almost always makes your loader's cylinders operate slowly, as well as it ties up your rear remotes, making the tractor's remote hydraulics "useless" when the loader is hooked up.

What I would have done is gotten a regular Cross brand, Prince brand, or Gresen brand 2-spool control valve (with float detent in the one spool for the loader mast) and installed it in the "standard position" off the right loader mast, above the right brake pedals within easy reach of your right hand.
You then plumb it directly into a hyd pressure port and a return to sump port of the hydraulic system, usually easiest on a Ford, right on the top rockshaft cover remote hydraulic valve body area. You could even plumb it into ONE of your rear hydraulic remotes, and then bungee the one lever that runs that particular valve under the seat into the pressure position. Oil would then flow through the tractor's rear remote control valve, through the rear remote coupler, and to the loader control valve and finally back to sump. It would work almost as well as a direct plumbing, but a little slower. As stated earlier, you would still be limited to the speed (flow) capability of your tractor's rear remote valve when plumbed that way, but at least you would still have ONE free pair of rear remotes for running accessories, such as your blower chute. By the way... by directly plumbing in a loader control valve, you'd have a pair or remotes (4 empty quick-connects at the rear of your tractor) available for other tasks.

The bummer is that if whomever installed the loader in the first place wasn't being a cheap-skate, then the loader would have had it's own control valve from the get-go and you would not have had any issues, as you'd have those 4 ports back there to choose from for operating your extras, such as your blower chute turning motor.

We have a Ford 5610 II (Basically a newer generation 5000) and it is plumbed exactly as I stated above. We have only on rear remote (2 quick-connects) on our tractor, so it only made sense to plumb the loader direct and have a remote loader control valve, which enables us to use the loader as well as any other rear mounted function through the tractor's rear remote pair as we choose at the same time without messing around with disconnecting and re-connecting hoses, disabling one attachment for another nonsense and such.

Good luck with your electric motor idea. Since you are swapping a very expensive and reliable hydraulic motor for a crummy unreliable electric motor, it's no wonder your dealer is more than willing to do a swap with you.

Go to Tractor Supply (or your local farm store or dealership) and buy yourself a nice new Cross 2-spool (2 lever) loader control valve (for open center hydraulic system) and a couple of hydraulic hoses. If you can weld up a bracket, drill 2 or 3 holes to mount the valve, and attach 2 hoses, you can install that loader control valve on your right loader mast and you will be much happier in the long run!

~ Andy

The knob that goes in and out is a selector valve. It switches between the 3pt hitch and the remote. Try pulling it out and then see if the 3rd. remote works.

(quoted from post at 14:38:27 02/01/11) The knob that goes in and out is a selector valve. It switches between the 3pt hitch and the remote. Try pulling it out and then see if the 3rd. remote works.

Click to expand...

Bob...

It has already been established that his "3rd remote" is not really a 3rd remote like people are used to using, and that even when the selector valve is shifted, it will NOT functionally work as he wants it to.

The 3rd remote on his tractor is plumbed special, and it is Ford's "Load Monitor System". It is ONLY for operating a draft-controlled remote cylinder on a semi-mounted moldboard plow.

Please go back and READ the other posts in this thread, particularly Paul's postings that explain it very well.

If Rick wants more hydraulic capability on his tractor, he should do exactly as I spelled out for him, by adding a loader control valve and freeing up the use of his rear hydraulic remotes. However, if he wants the "quick fix" (as I'm sure he will), then he will be putting an electric chute rotator motor on his blower, and be over it. Either way, he'll get it done.

Andy

Andy,
Your idea on setting up the loader separate from the remotes is the way I want to go. I intend to use the loader quite a lot and having the levers up in a handy position would be grand. I looked into a solenoid hydraulic splitter for the remotes. A lot of money to build a compromised system, money better spent on getting the loader on its own. So, my next question. You mentioned piping into a pressure port and a return. Where can I find a diagram of the Ford hydraulic system that shows these? My local dealer is of no help on older Fords, knows New Holland products.

Thanks yet again,

Rick

Bob,
Tried that, no response to the third remote.

Thanks,

Rick

Chief A
Adding a ind 2 spool valve shouldn't be hard to do. I think Ford had a power beyond plate that would bolt under rear remote valve to plumb the ind 2 spool valve. Have you tried asking this question on the Ford forum? There are several knowledgeable people that post on it.

Rick,

Hmmm, well at the moment I really couldn't tell you where to plumb for the pressure and return ports on your 5000 for an additional remote loader control valve.
I'd have to go do some looking on our 5610 tractor to get an idea. Problem is, she's about 10+ miles from me, in a barn that's not really accessible due to the weather this time of year. (She's hibernating for the winter.)

It's too bad your local "Ford" dealer can't (or won't) help you. No surprise though. As guys move on, retire, die off, etc... so does a lot of knowlege in the Ag world. Modern times make "us" stupid. Our mechanics nowadays don't know 1/2 of what guys like me and certainly before me knew. (And let me tell ya, I know a lot, but I sure don't know everything.) That's one GREAT thing about the internet and these forums... Lots of information to be shared!

Anyway... at this particular time, the best I can tell you is that you MAY be able to find where your rear hydraulic remotes get their feed from and either find an available unused port in the vicinity, or possibly you can "T" into one of the supply lines that feed the rear remotes. HOWEVER, I don't know if that is even possible without an additional ported cover (aka: "power beyond") plate, as Tx Jim had just mentioned. A GOOD Ford (New Holland) parts guy should be able to help you out with getting what you need.

It may be worthwhile to post your question on the "FORD" forum here on YT and pick their brains, as I'm not a Ford "expert" like some of the guys here may very well be. Clue me in here if you do so, as I'd be interested in their opinions as well.


Oh, one last thing that I just thought of... Your Ford has an OPEN-CENTER hydraulic system. Therefore, be 100% certain that the 2-spool loader control valve that you use is set up as an open center valve.
Most good loader control valves nowadays come as "convertible" valves - meaning they can be used either way, simply by unscrewing and changing from an open port to a plug (internally, on the inlet or pressure side of the valve) if needed.

It seems that most aftermarket control valves are built as open-center units. More often than not, you have to specify or order the closed-center plug seperate to convert the valve from open to closed, if you had - say, an 'older Deere. It's been a while, but I think a conversion plug for making an open-center Cross 2-spool loader control valve into a closed-center one cost me around $20 bucks back about 10 - 15 years ago.

Many of the older Utility and Row-Crop John Deere's of the 1960's, '70's, '80's, and 1990's had closed center hydraulic systems. Seems many manufacturers that had used closed-center hydraulic systems in the past have gone back to Open-Center pumps, as the technology has gotten better, and open-center systems are cheaper to build, repair, and seem to be more "universalized" if you ask me.

Using a closed-center hydraulic valve on your Ford 5000 tractor would eventually destroy your hydraulic pump by creating a "dead-heading" situation.

Sorry this post got a little long... but just a "heads-up" that you want to be fully aware of.

Andy

Andy,

You've been more than helpful, thanks. I am going to live with what I've got until spring as I don't want to get stuck somewhere in the process and have nothing. Right now I just get extra exercise getting off the machine, changing hookups and climbing back on.

I may look into having a front mount pump/reservoir sytem so that the loader is completely independant of the onboard hydraulics. I have some of the pieces as that was how my previous tractor was set up and it worked very well. There were no hydraulics at all on that machine. This Ford is a big step up in HP and features for me and a learning process.

Rick

Jim,

No I haven't yet. I will take some pics this weekend and do that. With the pics up someone could point me in the right direction.

Rick

(quoted from post at 00:52:39 02/03/11) Andy,

You've been more than helpful, thanks. I am going to live with what I've got until spring as I don't want to get stuck somewhere in the process and have nothing. Right now I just get extra exercise getting off the machine, changing hookups and climbing back on.

I may look into having a front mount pump/reservoir sytem so that the loader is completely independant of the onboard hydraulics. I have some of the pieces as that was how my previous tractor was set up and it worked very well. There were no hydraulics at all on that machine. This Ford is a big step up in HP and features for me and a learning process.

Rick

Click to expand...

Rick,

Yeah anytime. You are welcome.

As for converting to a front pump/remote reservoir... That's not entirely a bad idea, but can be pretty expensive to add. Plus, you will now have 2 hydraulic pumps to wear out, as well as more hyd fluid and filters to maintain. As well as a big clumsy doofus loader hyd fluid reservoir to have to mount somewhere. However, one benefit to a remote dedicated system for the loader is typically an increase in loader speed. Most front pumps used for loaders have a high GPM (flow) and allow for great loader cycling times. That's one of the main reasons that industrial/construction tractors use seperate pumps for loader and hoe functions vs. tying into any additional onboard tractor hydraulics. Not to mention serviceability. When a front mounted hydraulic pump takes a dump, it's a heckuva lot easier to replace it than having to split the tractor to fix a tractor's internally driven hydraulic pump.

Typically you "tap" into the tractor's hydraulic system to run a FEL (Front End Loader) to cut down on costs, since a hydraulic system is already in place on your tractor.

It's funny you mention the front mounted pump idea. I've often thought about adding a remote reservoir & front pump system to my MF 285 tractor just to speed up my loader's cycle times. The tractor's hyd pump is not very "big" (lower GPM's) and it's MF 246 FEL is pretty large and can lift a heckuva lot of weight. However, I deal with a little bit slower loader cycle time because for me, it isn't worth the additional investment needed just to speed up the loader's cycle times. Plus, I have an 'ol 1968 Case 580CK and she has an awesomely fast loader on it for when I need fast loading/digging capabilities.

Using a FEL with faster cycle times is kind of like using a good computer with fast internet access... Once you use one that is faster, you really dislike using a slower one.

Whatever you do... Don't drive a newer TLB (Tractor/Loader/Backhoe) like a Case 580, or a Deere 310, or a NH (Ford) 555, because if you do, you will totally "hate" the loader on your Ford 5000. LOL!

~ Andy

Andy,

I have the pump, drive coupling and the brackets from the old machine. The old loader had the reservoir as part of the frame of the loader. Good in theory but not in practise. It weeped oil from several welds! That loader was fast compared to this one. With the amount of loader work I will do I am thinking it may be worth the effort.

Rick