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Im young and I need advise of crop farming

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brandonh

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Ok yall. You guys have help me alot with getting started with hay. Im completly comfortable witht he hay process and how to run everything. Ive been under, over,between, beside, up and over my equipment and Im pretty smart as to ho it all works. Its very interesting to me. And Ive found out that the more I know my equipment the easier it is to troubleshoot when something goes wrong, and Im learning what my balers like. But I just turned 20. And Im looking for a way to make money farming. Its in my blood and its what Im meant to do. Im wanting to start farming grain. Beans, corn, wheat. Mainly beans. I have property availible. And beans are bring +-$9.50 a bushel and I figured 75 bushel was average per acre. If I had 50 acres thats $36000 gross. If I could make 25000-30000 net a year I would be happy. Im not looking to make a killing right now. But Im just wanting to get started and hopefully build into something bigger later on. I have the college option from my parents but no desire there. Im almost definet if I came up with a plan and a productive way to make this work they will help me get started. But I need advice of does and donts and a step by step plan to la before my parents and say heres my goal in life, help me acheive it. Like I said I dont have to make a killing. Im just wanting to get started. As of right now we have all the hay eqipment, 3 bottom auto trip plow, disc, and several other implements. My plan is to get a grail drill, larger(10ft+) disc, sprayer,cultivator and hopefully find a way to get someone to harvest and haul for me. I can buy good cheap usable combines for less than 4000 practically anytime but Im leaning towards contracting the harvesting and hauling until I get going.
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75 bpa is an awfully high yield, don't know where you're at, but Iowa average is in the 50-55 range,more realistic price would be $8.25-$8.50.
 
Im in Tennessee and I was jus estimating the average BPA on soybeans. But the local grain prices are showing 9.00 all the way to 9.85 per bushel for yellow soybeans as of today. They're up in our are right now. Forgot to mention the tractor is a open station 2755 with dual remote and a loader. Should be fine for small acreage but Id love to upgrade to a 2955 with cab and ac.
 
I'm in a similar situation to you (20 years old, interested in farming), and the best thing I can say is to NOT head straight into farming full time. Go to college for a couple years first, especially if your parents are willing to help you with that option. College will give you time to think over your options, maybe build up some capital, collect some low-cost equipment that you can tinker with and learn on before you actually need to use it, etc. Also, having a college diploma/degree to fall back on is an extremely good option, especially with the ups and downs of today's farming world.

I'm in the third year of a university agri-business degree program, and have enjoyed every minute of it. I've learned A LOT more then I ever could have/would have on the farm, much of which will help me be successful if I decide to farm afterwards. Plus, I've met a whole lot of great people, and established a solid network of acquaintances and connections.
 
Might ask one of your neighbors (or county agent) about average yield; I'd say 40 bu per A is a more realistic figure..........depending on where you are in TN.
 
you are going to get $9.50/bu x75bpa for beans you haven't planted yet? Remember the old adage "don't count your chickens before they hatch! Get some schooling you can always use a degree as a backup, you can't ven get a job as a street sweeper these days without a college degree.
 
Let's do it per acre. Here in Iowa.

Land costs $175
Machine costs $75
Seed $45
Herb $30
Insecticide $15

Total costs $340

Average Iowa yield is 46. Price for Oct. is $8.20

Total income $377.20

Net profit of $37.20 per acre. 50 acres will net about $1850

And I forgot fuel. And you may need fertilizer to get the soil up to par.

Are the prices you show at the Chicago Board of trade. There is a bases off of that price at your delivery point.
 
Im alreaDy dead set on it. Ive already tried a few things after highschool and all I can do while im working is think about farming. Its what I want to do and somebody has to do it. Had a chance to take over my dads business but its not for me. I want to farm. Dont care if im never a millionaire. If Im making a living doing what I love Im way better off than someone who makes millions and is miserable.
 
well knock yourself out, along comes a kid or a bride or both then it takes alot more to keep the house going but you cant go back to school because of the family demands and you can't get a better paying job without schooling.
 
no those the prices from out local grain sales here in Tennessee. They that was todays price. And Ive free access to several acres of land.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/nv_gr110.txt
 
Im with Gary on his figures. Never, ever have I hit 75 bushel beans. 55 occassionally, 61 once, 42 normally. I've also never sold for more than 8.00 a bushel. No matter what the futures price in June, come harvest with no storage of my own I take my licks on price and I've sold a lot more 5.00 beans than 8. Some people like row cropping, and thats great if its your thing. Its not mine personally, thats why I dont do much of it any more.

As to what to do starting out, find what you like, then figure out how to make it pay. When I was 15 I liked driving tractors, so I did custom work, and lots of it. When I turned 20 I decided I wanted to put the part of the crop the landlord kept into building equity and started doing it on my own land. What I realized really quickly is the less time I sit on the tractor the better off I am financially. I'm the manager and the time I spend shopping for inputs and working with customers more than pays for all the mechanics and tractor drivers I'll ever need. But, I still like driving tractors. So, I still do it, but with the knowledge I'm no longer a 30 dollar an hour owner/manager but a 10 dollar and hour driver.

For the income stream you are looking for, and Gary's figures that looks like you want 800 to 1000 acres. Just based on what I see that seems in line with what most people are doing who are doing it full time. Also, dont forget that as someone self employed that 30K in gross income is a far stretch from net. You have to take off state, fed, local, and social sec taxes, health and disability insurance, life insurance if you have a family, and all the other good stuff.
 
Brandon, there is nothing wrong with a second career option to fall back on. Farming can be real cruel.
But if you insist start out small don't get to far in debt. Look for a farmer to work for that you can trust to tutor you and possibly help you with equipment needs. Mark
 
im not counting my eggs before they hatch. Im just trying figure out how to make ends meet. I feel like ive got a super oppurtunity to do what I love.
 
Free land makes a huge difference. But don't expect to have free land for life.

A 15 months from now, when yours will be ready beans could be $7.00.

Not trying to cry on your Wheaties but a backup plan for income is important.
 
I agree that there is money in hay. I can net roughly $30 an hour square baling hay. Can make even more round baling. Thats after I factor in cost. Which isnt bad money but its not constant income. But I feel like there is more money in grain. I had a guy tell me the other day that it seems like he has to spend $950 to make $1000. I know its not the nest career to follow but its what I want to do. And I hope someday I can figure out how to make it work.
 
I've been where your at. All I wanted was farming. No free land though.

Did it full time for 10 years out of high school with livestock and grain. Family grew, prices fell, and costs went up.

Got a part time job and kept farming for the next 15 years.

Now I have been farming full time for the past ten years.

Gary
 
Smartest thing you said was contracting the harvesting, and for no more than you are talk'n I'd contract the spray'n too (Local Southern States and CPS will custom spray for little more than what the chemicals cost and a wore out sprayer will cost alot more than what it cost). What part of TN are you in? Is tobacco an option? As for the grain drill, if you are set on row crop'n from what I have seen here in KY you'd be better off start'n with a 7000 six row planter and find you some kinze bean meters to put in it. You can cover 50 acres pretty fast split'n your rows to make 15s and you can totally rebuild one out of the Shoup catalog.

What ever you do start small and don't borrow much money.

Hate to beat a dead horse but farm'n is hard and ain't ever gonna get any easier. If you have the chance to go to school do it, it will never be any easier. I farm more than what you are talking about and I have a great night job that pays the bills. I would not have as good a night job or be able to make as good of dicisoins with out a four year degree.

Good luck in what ever you do!

Dave
 
Right, that's todays price but you have no beans today. So flash ahead to Oct 2011 when you have your first beans. Price here in Mn. for jan. 2011 is $8.59. And if you know how to raise 75 bpa beans I will put you on the payroll and pay you more then you could ever make farming your 50 acres. First thing if you want to be sucesful farmer is stop looking at things through rose colored glasses. Be realistic with your yield est. and market price.
 
Thanks for the input dave. Im in Middle TN just north of Cookeville. Im smack between Nashville and Knoxville. Tobacco is an option but just a last resort right now. Ive got land within the family to use for free. And Ive got a huge company doing beans all around me so Im pretty sure I could get the spraying and harvesting done real resonble because theyre practically in my front yard. Whatever I decide, Im going to put many hours of thinking and homework into it. I may start into it slow and rent a planter for my first season and see how things work out.
 
I work for my parents right now with their business in construction. I plan to keep working part time just to stay afloat incase things go sour.
 
Are you sure about 75 bushel beans in Tenn? Best I think I ever had was 62 here in Missouri bottom ground. We probably average around 40-45, but when planting, I plan everything on 30 bushels per acre.

I have a trucking buddy who complains about the cost of running a truck, and throws out figures like you did about farming. He thinks he should just farm and pocket a hundred thousand a year.

A little info...

Corn will cost about 300-400 an acre to put in and harvest if you keep everything to a minimum.

Beans have a lower fertilizer cost, but seed beans are hitting 50 to 75 dollars per bag. Please note, you cannot raise beans every year on the same ground, you have to rotate those crops.

Unless re-seeding for hay, people here have stopped growing wheat. Fertilizer costs make it a constant loser.

We have 700 acres, but have found cash rent usually pays more than farming. So, half is rented, I farm the other half and work a six day a week job on top of that to get spending money.

Move into it slowly. I like your drive, but use your worst case scenario when figuring farming finances. Your bank will!
 
probably not 75! I was shooting high apparently. Im in the process of finding out the BPA on the local crops. They been harvesting first crop the last 2 or 3 days. I'll try to find out.
 
I'm glad you are not trying to make a killing, 'only' averaging $600 profit per acre. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

I like your enthusiasm, but you gotta rethink your numbers _big_ time.

The average harvest in Tennessee appears to be 34 bu per acre, on a 5 year rolling average.

If you want to beat that average, you need to invest a lot in lime, fertilizer, and good good seed.

In my time, I've gotten over $9 a bu beans a handful of times - we are in the gravy train yet on beans, frankly I donno why they are so high yet. I've gotten Under $5 a bu more often than I've gotten over 9.

So, to be realistic, you need to be looking at 40 bu average yield, and $7.50 or less price.

That's 300 gross per acre, or $15,000 gross on your 50 acres.

THAT is reality over the long haul.

Take your costs out of the $15,000 - and you will have your net. (Combining should be $1100, fert will be $2500, seed $1500, herbicide $500 + 150 application. Land cost - I donno what rent is in your area? It's either side of $200 an acre 'here', or about $10,000. Total costs could be $15,750.)

So - you just lost $750 for the year, if you are about average....... Maybe your land rent is lower, but it won't make you a rich man.

A good year where you get 60 bu beans and 9 plus dollar beans - time to celebrate!

Hope it makes up for the times you get 28 bu beans and $4.80 a bu.....

While being here in MN I don't know much about raising crops in your climate, you gotta look at reality on the yields and prices.

We can go from there. :)

Again, like your enthusiazm, and good luck with the plans. :)

Ain't gonna make a living on 50 acres of commodity crops any more.

--->Paul
 
I'm glad you are not trying to make a killing, 'only' averaging $600 profit per acre. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

I like your enthusiasm, but you gotta rethink your numbers _big_ time.

The average harvest in Tennessee appears to be 34 bu per acre, on a 5 year rolling average.

If you want to beat that average, you need to invest a lot in lime, fertilizer, and good good seed.

In my time, I've gotten over $9 a bu beans a handful of times - we are in the gravy train yet on beans, frankly I donno why they are so high yet. I've gotten Under $5 a bu more often than I've gotten over 9.

So, to be realistic, you need to be looking at 40 bu average yield, and $7.50 or less price.

That's 300 gross per acre, or $15,000 gross on your 50 acres.

THAT is reality over the long haul.

Take your costs out of the $15,000 - and you will have your net. (Combining should be $1100, fert will be $2500, seed $1500, herbicide $500 + 150 application. Land cost - I donno what rent is in your area? It's either side of $200 an acre 'here', or about $10,000. Total costs could be $15,750.)

So - you just lost $750 for the year, if you are about average....... Maybe your land rent is lower, but it won't make you a rich man.

A good year where you get 60 bu beans and 9 plus dollar beans - time to celebrate!

Hope it makes up for the times you get 28 bu beans and $4.80 a bu.....

While being here in MN I don't know much about raising crops in your climate, you gotta look at reality on the yields and prices.

We can go from there. :)

Again, like your enthusiazm, and good luck with the plans. :)

Ain't gonna make a living on 50 acres of commodity crops any more.

--->Paul
 
I like to see a young person wanting to farm. The problem I see is that you have no direct knowledge of what "real" farming is. You said that your family is in the construction business. You are used to a business that has a much higher profit margin than farming.
!!!A plan to get to be a farmer!!!
1) Find a local farmer and work for him to gain knowledge. This way you are earning money and knowledge. Let him pay you not to make some big mistakes later for yourself. Do this part time while you still do the job you do. There is a lot more to farming than just planting "free" ground.
2) Don't be in such a hurry to blow off college. Some classes in business management would be of good use in a future farming operation.
3) You need to find a niche to get started in farming. Row crop grain farming is one of the hardest and most expensive ones to make a profit in. Also unless you are in Western Tenn. Grain farming would be a hard choice.
4) You have much more labor than money right now. That is how most farmers start. So you need to look at types of farming that allow you to use your strengths to get going. I am willing to bet that you can clear much more on that fifty acres on hay than grain. Plus you already have some of the equipment needed.
!!!! Some cold hard facts!!!!
Average clear profit per acre of crops in Tenn.
Corn $65 Soybeans $48 grass hay $75 alfalfa $92
These numbers are from the national banking data base. I had my local banker look them up for me. These are the numbers that they will use when looking at lending money.

You are to be admired for wanting to try farming. BUT You need to be realistic about it. There are professional people doing it that still take much larger acreages, than you have, to make a living. Many of the guys on this site are farming part time because the hard facts of life mean that they can't make a living by farming alone.
 
Brandon I think by now you realize your numbers are off quite a bit. Actually they are unrealistic. I would hope you wouldn't jump in thinking you will get that.

A few others have suggested you get some schooling. I am gonna join in that fray. I personally went to Iowa State and really didn't have any option. At the time I wanted to take a 2 year course in farm mechanics but the parents told me I was gonna go to a 4 year program of my choice in a University setting. At the time I wasn't real crazy about it but looking back it was the best thing for me. I found a Major that was close enough for my interests to suit my skills as a student. Best thing I did. Learned a lot of things that I use to this day.

Eeking out a living on the farm isn't just a matter of willingness to work hard with your muscles. You need to have pretty good gray matter between the ears also. Yep you need to be able to work on equipment. But also need to be able to market your crops, know what you are doing with a sprayer (you will most likely need a license for this depending on what chemicals you are using), etc, etc. Oh yeah you need a good financial head on your shoulders also. You have enthusiasm and that is good, but you need to keep working on your numbers coz they are off quite a bit.

I will give you my example. I farm with pretty modest equipment (newest tractor is nearly 25 years old and it isn't green) Run about 500 acres and with that old equipment the rolling iron alone is worth $50,000. If I bought all new you would be talking close to a cool million to set up the way I am.

If you really want this, you can make it happen just don't jump in over your head. And get some more education while it is easy to do so.

jt
 
The money is in things people don't want to do or can't do.I think you should go after the hay deal and custom work.Going to school could be a good thing,but only if your going to do well.If not it's a waste of time and money.Your young and want to make something happen and latter in life it may be harder to take the risk.
 
A lot of long time farmers are getting out of it because it's so unpredictable and nothing is guaranteed. 50 acres isn't even considered a farm in most parts. What if you get flooded or have severe hail that ruins your crops? You'll also be fixing machinery all the time and not always easy or cheap repairs. Just ask any of the farmers on here. Don't limit yourself to one career option or you'll be setting yourself up for failure. What's the saying, Failing to plan is planning to fail or something like that. There are a lot easier ways to make money than farming and doing it by yourself is hard work. Leave yourself some other career options. Dave
 
Just what makes you think you can have 75bu beans. Better figure 50 first and where do you live and what type of soil is it flat and well toled how much is the rent ya just dont throw seed out and get 75bu. How do you plan on harvesting them and where is the storage and what do your neighbors tell you. With rent being what it is the 50A you are talking about why hasent someone else been farming it something is going on here.
 
There"s a lot of good advice here and most of it is right on the mark. I too think that you should consider your education first. 40 years from now you"ll be glad you did. I am glad to see young people wanting to get into farming, the pool is getting slimer of people wanting to take the risks involved and the hard work. I started out like you are wanting to and I worked in town for 23 years before I was able to farm full time but it can be done. Just be realistic in your goals, it"s a lot more satisfying to excede your goals than to come up short. Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
quote "They been harvesting first crop the last 2 or 3 days. I'll try to find out." NO ONE IS HARVESTING SOYBEANS IN TENNESSEE IN JUNE!!!!!!!!
 
Good deal. What ever you do think real hard about school!

My wife and I have spent a few weekends back roading it around Cookville. Unless you are in some hidden creek bottom that is back in behind some of the hills that I have never seen you really need to refigure that 75bpa number.
 
Thanks for the comment Mark-Mi.

Most people here are giving good advice, particularly the ones who are suggesting working for another farmer for a while. It's better to be getting PAID to farm, then having to pay to farm, if/when you lose money on a bad year(s). While I spend the fall/winter away at school, I'm at home in the summers and work for a local farmer. Working with him has taught me a lot about not only farming, but the business and management skills needed to minimize risk and be successful farming. Lessons that will save me many costly errors down the road.
 
I think everyone has been giving pretty sound advice. Let me tell you where I am.

I'm 57 and have been farming my wife's farm for 22 years. We started out with 60 tillable acres and bought the neighboring farm in 1992 and added another 45 tillable acres to the operation. In 1998 I rented another 18 acres from the elevator where I work for their seed test plot.

I have an ag degree from a major university and so does my wife. We both work full time off the farm. Financially the farm stands on it's own, we don't take any income from the farm other than it provides us a great place to live in the country.

I've been in the fertilizer, chemical, feed and seed industry since I graduated from college in 1975. I've done all that I can to expand and increase my expertise in crop production and farming gives me a way to gain practical knowledge about what I sell.

The first ten years were the toughest, basically we supplimented our farming with our off farm jobs. Finally we had a few good years in a row where we got a little ahead and will have our mortgage paid in two years.

The long and short of it is that last year we netted about $100 per acre off of 100 acres of crops. I know that the acres don't add up, but some of that ground was enrolled in the CRP programs. The biggest problem I have is in repairs and machinery cost which run about $65 per acre every year. When it cost me $1500 to fix a tractor it works out to $15/acre. Were I to farm 1000 acres that would $1.50/acre and a lot more manageable.

I've learned a lot from my farm management and production classes in college, and having a practical way to apply them has been a real eye opener.

I'll leave you with one pearl of wisdom:

When your "outgo" exceeds your "income" your "upkeep" will be your "downfall".

I think you can see from my experience with repairs and maintenance where that statement is headed.
 
I'm thinking he is confusing snapbeans (greenbeans) with soybeans. Tennessee is probably a good month plus ahead of here in the NY Finger Lakes region where we would start about July 20 assuming they have snapbeans down there.
Good advice being given by the board. I wish my parents were in the construction business when I started to provide a means of finance .
 
Reminds me of someone, myself. Had to get a job to support my farming habit. Found that wasn't enough, so went back to school and became a land surveyor. Farming became a second job, then as I got busier, it was a way to get away from work. Now the economy has turned again and farming is back as a fall back job. My advise is to get some skills to fall back on, you may need to do multiply things to make a living.
 
figuratively speaking :), 50 acres is very doable on the side but some off farm income will most likely be needed. Get a decent job and farm the 50 acres in your spare time, then take some winter credits. I started farming out of high school 25 yrs. ago and off farm income helps keep the wheels greased, I have also been passed over for some jobs that I was qualified for but lacked paper experience.
 
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