ethanol for 2 cycle engines

Alot of upset folks dealing with these issues on both sides of the fence.

I made numerous calls to small engine shops, as well as sellers of oil mix companies.

My question so far has been so far hands down, WITH OUT EXCEPTION----NO NO NO

Not trying to blow smoke, or ruffle feathers here. I do not profit from this stament, nor does my daddy own a oil company. Just passing along the answers I recieved. I also live in Iowa, where it is almost impossible to buy gas with out ethnol. Corn is a big part of our state, and economy.

I use it in tractors and in my 2 cycle mix---never been a problem--that I can strickly blame the fuel for my 2 cents worth....gobble

I work for a marine dealer and most of the fuel system problems are directly related to ethanol, unofficially all the manufacturers say no good stay away! I have seen numerous examples even on the new 2 strokes and carbureted 4 strokes, stay away from the stuff or it will eventually come back to haunt you!

And what exactly does it do to cause problems?

My chainsaw rebuilder told me my rubber fuel lines would last awhile longer without ethanol,but the new stihl fuel lines for my 039 dont look the same as the original either,but it,a 2 stroke golf cart and a Poulan and Homelite saw run just fine on the 10% blend anyway.

Minnesota folks have been using ethanol blended gasoline for 30+ years. I have used it in snowmobiles, chain saws, lawn mowers, leaf blowers, etc. with no ill effects. If your storage container is not clean you will experience some filter plugging.
There is a large amount of info availabe that has not been passed down from your uncle's 2nd cousin's father-in-law's brother's boss, etc, etc!!!

Bob, I never asked for details, perhaps It would have been wise on my part to have done so. I'm sure someone with more knowledge can let us know.

A friend that owned a gas station said he had troubles with some of his pumps, that was later blamed on ethnol. But how can anyone be sure of such statments of blame.

Small engine dealers have stated that their companies are very quick to recomend THEIR OIL, but most assume it has to do with following the money making trail.

On the other hand I know of contractors, and farmers, as well as friends that say they mix one can with so much gas---and use it as universal 2 cycle oil. AND then ask to borrow my equipment. I usualy furnish the gas and gas can so I know the correct mix, and a clean can is handy for them. The expense of some of this stuff for construction is kinda out of control for prices. Most folks have no idea of the replacment cost.

I have been told from different sorces in the past from my best recolection is that it will break plastic down, even in a gas can made before a certian date. Rubber is another thing that I have heard about.

I have had issues with rubber gas lines, but I always assumed it was because of old age.

I seem to be gifted when it comes to having things like small engines etc giving problems. That can be a managment issue, with lots of hired help, and lending out equipment. I never have the heart to say no to anyone, even though it is usualy borrowed so they can avoid hiring me for the job. The borrowing is bad enough, but usualy they make a coment as to how much stuff I have, and sometimes referd to as junk. But they sure know where to borrow the junk the next time. That is just small town I guess.

I totaly agree that some folks have had good luck.

On the other side I know numerous corn farmers that promote ethnol, try to avoid using it in small engines.

When It first was introduce, we were then told it had alot of advantages, then opinions have kinda turned around now.

I am usualy on the side of caution. I don't smoke, drink, drive over the speed limit,or do drugs. Some folks do and live along time.

I wish I could say I was concerned about getting shot by a jelous super models father,husband,or boyfriend, but thats not the case at all.

Had the same problem with our two strokes. Service guy said use premium gas ONLY. All Stihl equipment and impossible to start with ethanol gas.

The only thing that I have found made with rubber in the last 20 years is rubber gloves and I am not sure about them.
As for small fuel lines, they get hard and go bad no matter what I run through them.

O.K. here goes. Ethanol separates out from gasoline. When the raw ethanol gets into your carburteor, your engine won't start. Couple weeks ago, Union Pacific Railroad picked up a string of tank cars filled with ethanol. Went nearly 40 miles with one of them draining. Called out the haz-mat and epa. Both agencies agreed-no danger. Why? Because the temperature was too cold (in the twenties) for ethanol to ignite. As its not a hydrocarbon, it was decided to just let it evaporate. Now, in your carburetor, there may be cork gaskets. That cork is held together with a binder called shellac. Guess what the solvent for shellac is.

I run 10% ethanol 89 octane in my Stihl MS 440 and have put 15-20 gallons a year through it for five years without a problem. I don't know of anywhere that sells gas with no ethanol locally. Maybe it'll come back to haunt me eventually, I don't know.
Zach

Cork comes from the "Cork Oak Tree" and used just the way it coems off the tree

We never had any big problems with our 50+ 2cycle engines. Then two years ago or so, we started having problems with internal parts (bad problems). Found out the blend went up on the ethanol percentage right before that. Guess that dislodged stuff or did something else? Soon after that, no more problems up to this date. Wasn't very happy for a few months there in '08.

My 2006 Buick says right in the book that came with---it recommends 10% ethanol. I've used it in all my equipment and never had any problems. But it sureis a good reason to blame problems too. lol

Biggest problem, if it sets with ethanol without fuel sabalizer, STABIL (one brand) it will gum up your carb. A lot of vertical shaft air cooled engines ruined. Carb float needle gummed-up. Fuel will push the oil out through the muffler and cylinders gall because of deluted lube. Most 2cycle oil now has fuel stabilizer in it. Be sure it does.

Use 100LL. No ethanol and the octane will offer some protection from detonation should the mixture be too lean.

a good repair shop wont recomend any 2-cycle mix that doesn't have stabilizer already in it
we make more money on people that have metal gas cans( metal flakes) and water than we do with people using E-10
and most if not all of your carb rebuild kits are rubber, check out a walbro rebuild kit

There is a good living to be made around here cleaning carbs. Gas is so bad these days that on a quiet night you can hear it go bad. That said, last Saturday...sitting in the shop drinking coffee with a half dozen or so friends....one of the guys suggested that a lot of the problems we have with gas these days is due to switching to plastic containers as opposed to metal. I have to admit that the timing is about right for that theory. I do a lot of hauling for the dealer down the road, so I"m in and out of their shop a lot. Their gas related problems on their own equipment went to almost nothing when they set a policy of non-ethanol gad for their own small engines. For me, I run ethanol added gas during the season, but as the season comes to a close run it out and switch to the good stuff.

Ethanol will cause problems for two strokes here"s why.

First off i have for many years raced in many differant motor sports that used methanol as a fuel as well as nitro..

Here in Michigan we snowmobile and we are seeing the results of it on crank seals failing.

On a two stroke you have to use a injection oil or premix that won"t seprate after time, most do.

We used to use Klotz bean oil as it was designed not to seprate with alchol based fuels.

Ethanol , methanol etc etc all dry out rubber seals , needle and seats , o-rings.

We always ran a good pre mix with gas threw our race motors after wards to lube all rubber parts.

Also with ethanol in two strokes the timing needs to be turned up to reap the bennies of the fuel.


Ethanol , methanol will also attract water right threw a gas can. Never store it on the floor...


This is just some of the things i have learned over the years, hope it helps.


If you doubt the crank seal issue call Dees Marine in Michigan and ask for Al , he is the owner.

On old outboard motors [ mid fifties are the
ones I play with.] the cork carb floats are coated with some type of sealer that peels
off after prolonged exposer to ethanol blends.
It flakes off then plugs the internal carb
passages.
The float needs to be cleaned and dried, then
recoated with an ethanol resistant coating.

Most "ethanol" problems are caused by the ethanol cleaning out the crud building up in your tank from the gasoline being used. Certainly was true when methanol was used in the 80s.

If anybody thinks gasoline is poor quality today? Does anybody remember gasoline 20,30,40+ years ago. It would turn to gum,tar and varnish in a few days to a few weeks in some conditons. It stank too.
Today if you leave a container of gasoline open to evaporate away. There is very little residue left.

Sorry, but it gets ground up and pressed into a mold for Holley gaskets. I went to ethanol blend when it first came out and every spring, my 4 barrell carb would need rebuilt after sitting all winter-the gaskets in the fuel block had shrunk and the openings were mis-aligned. Same thing happened in my old 2N with the sediment bowl. Only cork gasket that DIDN'T have a problem was the float in the McCormick Deering 10/20.