shop heat

Finally getting around to putting heat in the shop. 40x60 w/ 14' ceilings. Going to put R19 in the walls and R30 in the ceiling. Internet program says I'll need about 220,000 btu. The heat will stay down around 45-50F, then kick it up when I am out there.

Looking for opinions on a couple of things.

1. Do I really need 220K? I don't plan on needing it at 70F all the time. Just want to take the chill off.

2. Thinking of a hanging furnace like a reznor. No ductwork etc. The tube radiants just seem pricy and don't seem to show up used too often.

Any opinions or experiences with a similar size building?

Thanks in advance,
Rick

The reason a lot of people went to the tube type heater was they are more efficent and save more money in fuel costs then what the heater cost.
In other words they pay for themselves plus it is more even heat.

I have 150,000 BTU heater and not near the insulation you have and I can get mine warm and keep it warm in Tennessee. 40 x 60 10ft ceilings and open above the 10ft. All the insulation I have is that which is covered with vinyl.

If specs call for 220,000 btu, better use it, those specs are usually marginal, bigger than that is probably better. Nothing worse than a too small heating unit, it'll run all the time and just barely give you heat, cost you more to run a too small one than a too big one.

My shop is 30x40 with a 12" ceiling and no insulation at all. I typically use two jet heaters, for a total of 130,000 BTU, to do the initial warm up. Once warmed up I can keep it at a "decent" working temp with my wood stove.

Dad"s shop is 40x60 with a 12 foot ceiling. In his we put the foil lined insulation up on the ceiling to keep from having to heat the area around the roof trusses. Even then there is an area on one end about 15x20 that is used for storage over the office and is open all the way to the roof. Other than the foil faced insulation board on the ceiling there is no other insulation. He has a 250,000 BTU waste oil heater that keeps it warm enough to work with no jacket on all but the coldest days.

I think a lot depends on where you are located.
My shop is near Buffalo, N.Y. Around Christmas
time the temperature was in the low teens.
A 160,000 unit backup furnace kept a 40x50x16
warm (60 degrees). But it was a little expensive
to run. Fuel oil here runs about $2.65 a gallon.
Seems to be much more economic with using the
radiant floor heat.

Depends on where you live but I install furnaces here in Minnesota and the program I have shows that you should have about 200,000 btu with no doors or windows. 225,000 with one 10 by 10 OH door and 3'x3' windows and 3' service door.

Also do not over size your furnace by much or it will not be efficient and the heat exchanger will rot out. The more efficient the furnace the cheaper it will operate, but the more efficient the more maintenance it will require.

Of course under sizing a furnace will leave you cold. There is also another trick to use a furnace a bit more efficient but slightly smaller. This allows the furnace to run longer and dry out the exchanger during its heat cycle.

It would be best to purchase a unit from a local installer and do as they say. This way you will most likely be able to get parts as the years go by.

Lets just say been there done that, had home made wood burner in 40 x40 shop. worked okay if you like to keep cutting wood and if ins lets you. Came out in few years went with old force air furnace out of house for few more years. It never did make very good heat in shop and take long time to gain back when open doors. Years later went to another small shop with hanging unit like you talking about, by the time it gets comfortable its about dark again,never did care for them. finally my last shop i am in daily 54x75x15 i heat with radiant heaters what a difference. My best choice hands down and heat is quick and fast recovery when open doors and melts the snow icwe right off and dry floor. None of the above even came close to doing what these do in my experience. Only thing I would do different is place them differently in the shop now. Love these units,no way would I go back to hanging reznor style units. Good luck. shop is growing by another 60 ft this year

I have also installed the radiant infrared heaters that he mentioned. As far as I am concerned they are the best heat if you plan to use your shop allot., Otherwise they may be out of your price range. If you understand infrared heaters (gas or electric) the real benefit is that they heat objects not air. It is the warm object that heats the air. Very fast recovery.

This in mind do not install one of these heaters if you plan to do allot of painting. We had one in our shop and had to do our painting under a shield or when the heat kicked in it would blister the paint.

My shop is 24’x32’x16’ to the peak, I have 1 ½’’ white bead board Insulation in the walls all the way around up 10’ and the walls are covered with ½ CDX all the way around.
I use a 155,000 BTU Diesel forced air heater. It will keep the temp, at 60 to 70 DEG,
At 30 to 40 below. I also have 2 roll up doors, 1-10’x10’ and 1-9’x7’ and 1 service door
I can live with those temps can you:
JR.Frye

I have had about all different kinds of heat in shops. With wood you tend to huddle around the stove and freeze on edges of building. Gas or oil furnaces heat the air but when you open the door its all gone and takes probably half hour to hour to get toasty again. Radiant tube heat is by far the best hands down! I Didn't think price was so high on it. I heat a 50 by 90 by 18 with one 180000 tube and keep building at 58 at night and 62 during day. Will warm up to 68 in about a hour. Cost for radiant was around 1500 and cost to operate is around a 1000 for winter. Thats for 800 gals of propane. To heat with regular furnace in old shop 24 x 40 x 10 cost about 800 for about 600 or so gals of propane.
I wouldn't even consider any other source for shop if you are planning on heating full time and or working in it very much.

My shop is 30X40 with 15' ceiling. A 156 btu hanging heater easily keeps it at 65 to 70 on the floor. Walls have 6" insulation and the ceiling is 24".
Of course heat rises so the balcony is a bit warmer then the floor. The thermostat is located about 1/2 way up the wall.

If you're not working in there full-time, an oversize furnace is nice to have. Something that can heat the place up fast, if you decide to work in there awhile.

My shop is 30 X 40 with three stories on one side, with a one-level 40 X 50 addition attached. Entire building is covered with 1" foam insulation (which isn't much), along with a vapor barrier and 1" rough boards. Upper areas all have 12" insulation (fiberglass).

Someone mentioned being cold with wood heat? Certainly not my experience. It gets down to 30F below here once in awhile, but 0 to 10F above is more typical for winter nights. Also very windy.

Shop has two heating systems. I can't let it freeze since it has lots of plumbing, full bath, etc. I have a 140K oil hot-air furnace (built in 1948). Paid $25 for it 30 years ago. Works great and I keep the thermostat set at 38 degrees F. Also have a Thermocontrol 500 woodstove (biggest they made). It's now sold as a "furnace." Legally cannot be called a woodstove any more due to Federal regs. When I come in to the cold shop to work, I turn up the oil furnace thermostat and the place is warm in ten minutes. I then get the fire going. One it IS going, the entire barn is warm, every inch of it -permimeter and all the floors above. And, it's all convection - i.e. no blower.

In addition, I guess I can say there is a third heating system. Two non-vented propane radiant heaters. Each 30K BTU and each needs no electricity to run. Never use them - at least not yet. Just there in case I go away and want to make sure the place has some heat incase power goes out. I installed that before I put in my solar electric system.

When I have some big projects, the fire runs for months without stop, instead of a few hours at a time. This year, I started the fire around Christmas and haven't shut it down yet. I've got two tractors, one dozer, and a small motorhome torn apart. It's nice to keep it all warm.

rick i dont know if its possible still for you but you may want to consider installing a couple ceiling fans. i have 2 in my 40x80x16 ft ceiling shop. no matter what heat you use hot air rises so when im run my heat i also have fans turning to circulate heat back down towards floor.

I've got a 40x70 that dad built back in 1969 for 3500 including the cement.He put in a 250000 btu fuel oil furnace that will run you out at any temperature.I had the building insulated with that foam in the walls stuff and installed a reznor 150000 waste oil furnace that heats it fine,just takes an hour longerer to heat up.I like the idea of not buying fuel oil.So far i've found plenty of used oil from the neighbors and a small newspaper add.

My shop is the same. 40x 64 x 12. R19 walls with 5/8 chip board. Blown in ceiling insul. I have a 220k Reznor, two three blade commercial ceiling fans. painted silver / yellow like P51 Props.
Digital thermostat. I keep the shop at 40 degrees, can bring it up to work there (60) in about 15 minutes.
Runs on propane tank behind shop. I use about 450 gals a YEAR, and that's in South Dakota. -12 last night as usual.
Been installed 10 year ago this month. Not one penny in repairs, or maintenance.
Is there some PM for the unit?

Gordo

but very ineffiecent.

If you plan to work with fumes get a sealed system. The type that uses exterior air for combustion. Mine is actually pressurized so any fumes can't be sucked in.

My shop is 40x50x17. I heated it last year for $275 worth of propane. I have an inner room, 16x22x10 with insulated walls to pull projects into one at a time. The inner room is heated with a wall mount catalytic propane unit which stays at 55 degrees. The outer part is heated by a propane salamander on the floor. The temp runs 38-42 I have noticed that at 18 degrees out it will come on once an hour and run for 45-55 seconds. I keep it pointed towards the underneath of a truck or tractor or whatever happens to be there. Notice I said towards. It is not under anything, it is a healthy distance away

Hey guys let me share a heater idea I saw some old country mechanics come up with about 20 years ago. I told a friend about this setup who has a big welding shop and years later when my dad visited him he had built one based on the story I told him.

I went in this shop about 20 years ago to ask about an old vintage truck I saw on the yard. There was this heater throwing out lots of heat and just cooking away. The firebox was the inside of an old wood burning heater. There was a 35 gallon drum on a stand at a higher level than the top of the heater. Out of the drum was a copper line with a wheel valve on it, that ran into the top of the old heater insert. I looked inside the heater and the line was dripping oil (which was gravity fed)a drip about every two or three seconds and hitting the bottom of the heater. The oil was burning on the bottom of the heater floor. That was the only fuel. (used motor oil)

These guys were putting old burned motor oil in the drum and what ever other oil they drained out of trucks when they were serviced and using that oil to heat their shop. It would run all day that way unattended.

There was little smoke out the stack because it burned very hot. They said to get it started in the morning, they would build a small fire with wood and then start the oil and let it run. It was a great working setup, cheap and dirty and reliable.

I thought it was funny when my dad was describing that our friend's setup to me and I told him that I had described that design to him years before. He made his own heater based on my verbal description only .

Everyone has old motor oil to get rid of and if you got a little time, you can put this rig together out of scrap parts and run it for about free.

Consider subsidizing you heat with solar. Assuming metal siding, laminate black siding with 4'x24'twin walled polycarbonate. Have wall ducts near the floor and ceiling covered with plastic bag flaps to prevent reverse convection. It'll easily cut your heating bill in half. Cheap too

IL was in a fellows shop the other day, it was 55 by 60 15 ft sidewall. He heated it with radiant heat in floor. He had outside wood heater. Boiler that is. Now if you already have a concrete floor that idea wouldn't work very well, but I thought it was great. Bernie Steffen

Rick I don"t know where you are at but I (am in Southern, Alberta, Canada) was in the same situation 3 years ago new shop 40X80 Arch style w/16ft ceiling.
So I did this built a wall at 50 ft which made 40X30 storage and 40x50 shop, put 14x20ft O/H insulated door, R-20 insulation, good vapour barrier sealed and taped all jounts around electrical boxes etc.
To heat I used a Magnum Grain stove (Country side Model) (It is a direct vent sealed unit(uses its own combustion air from outside)
I have been burning Rye (cheap) in it for past 2 + yrs its burns about 50 lbs/24hrs when -30F it easily maintains 50F inside on -30F days
Right now its getting to 20F @ night and 40F during day I burn 50 lb every 36hrs
I move equipment in and out once or twice during days its recovery time is not to bad 1/2 hr or so.
I also put 4 ceiling fans in to move air.
I made provisions to put a O/H Radiant heater in just in case stove won"t keep up (so far I don"t think I will need it)
Grain stove does need to be filled every 24-36 hr and ash dumped out once a week and occasional cleaning
But I have the grain readily accessable and I am in my shop almost every day and have had it go out and it takes about 3 days of -30F before it drops below 40F inside.
WE have a grain stove in the house as well its on from October till April between the 2 stoves last season I think we burned about 180 Bushel of rye (50-52 lbs per bushel)
Hope this gives you some ideas
Cheers
Dave Fisher

My shop is 48 X 72 insulated similar to yours. I have 12 X 14, 14 X 14, and 24 X 14 sliding doors plus two passage doors. No windows. I have two 60,000 BTU LP furnaces hanging from the ceiling with no duct work. Each furnace has a 60 inch slow speeds ceiling fan about 25 feet in from on the air discharge. I keep the thermostats set at about 45°F when the shop is not in use. When I am working in there I usually turn the one near where I work up to about 60°F. If it gets below zero I have to turn up the second one to raise the temp in the shop. At -30°F they both run about 80% of the time. I also have a 150,000 BTU waste oil furnace that I can turn on to warm things up faster if I bring a truck or tractor inside when it is really cold. I don't have enough waste oil to heat the shop with only the waste oil furnace.

id like to know more about that Magnum grain stove, where to buy, cost ect. southern albert?? im near Brooks

rocko

Thanks for all the input. Looks like radiant is better, just a little more upfront cost.

I have 4 fans across the ceiling so moving the air is not a problem. Around here, there are always plenty of reznors for sale, but very few radiant tube heaters.

Im going keep my eyes open for a radiant heater, but might end up running a reznor til I find one.

I like the idea of going a little oversize on the btus. Since I wont be out there all the time, I will be playing catch up with the heat when I am.

Thanks,
Rick

Rocko
Email me and I will get you the info for the Grain stoves
Dave Fisher
[email protected]