Boss (owner) chewed it something serious today about our poor financial performance in January. I'm not an excuse maker, so I set there and took it and showed respect. Without getting into too much, many (2/3) of his #'s were not exactly accurate and there were other things I had no control over(employees family medical costs, we are self insured) I'm 32 and have only been a manager for a couple years. Wondering what you old timers suggest: let it go, or go in there in the morning and point out where he was wrong. We are in an agricultural business, if that makes it relevant
- Thread starter JBMac
- Start date
J.Wondergem
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rockford, Mi.
If your in Michigan, let him think he's right.
ive been in your shoes, myself, but in this case you have to remember rule number 1, he's the boss, and the boss is always right, rule number 2, if the boss is wrong, see rule number 1 , he may not be right in this instance, but since he signs your paychecks, that gives him the right to make you the guest of honor at a donkey bbq, having a bad month, to a company owner has a ripple effect, and its never a good effect, the guy is probably feeling the financial pressure and is letting off steam, you being a manager , are first in line to recieve his venting,only 2 things you can do, 1 pass the ranting on down the line and correct the problem if possible, or 2 saddle up and ride, loosing your pay and getting a bad review from the next job you interview for, when that guy calls this guy to see how good a manager you were,
Tony Vidlak Sr.
Member
Let it go !! I work for the city of Omaha and have been a manager since 1997 unless an a$$ chewing is personel and wrongly given I just let it slide off. Its hard but you know the Jan. finances are not your fault and so does your boss you just happened to be the whipping boy.
The boss is just pi$$ed about the money situation and wanted to take it out on you. You may want to formulate a plan and show it to him after he has calmed down and explain to him where you think sales can improve. Blah, blah, blah. What is your position there? How many employees.?
I used to be a Mfg. engineer at a company and my old boss reamed me out good in 2001 cause I wasnt saving the company enough money in mfg. labor costs. Really the President of the company wanted to 8itch and my boss (the operations mang) got an earful on how expensive it was to run our plant and after that butt chewing I formulated a plan (with help) to show the pres. where we have reduced costs, in all areas. It sometimes helps a lot to make a strong effort even if it doesnt produce great results.
I used to be a Mfg. engineer at a company and my old boss reamed me out good in 2001 cause I wasnt saving the company enough money in mfg. labor costs. Really the President of the company wanted to 8itch and my boss (the operations mang) got an earful on how expensive it was to run our plant and after that butt chewing I formulated a plan (with help) to show the pres. where we have reduced costs, in all areas. It sometimes helps a lot to make a strong effort even if it doesnt produce great results.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
You need to stand up for yourself. If you don't, he'll just keep right on walking all over you, and it will keep eating and eating on you and make your life and your family's life a living heck. Just make sure you have your facts straight, and you shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you get fired, so what, draw unemployment off of them. If you are a decent manager, there are plenty of jobs to be had, don't let believe what people are saying about no jobs. There are jobs to be had for good workers, crappy workers are the first to go and last to be hired.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Bite your tongue and don't do anything hasty. See if the tongue lashings become a habit and then maybe take action. We are in a time that calls for tact and patience. For a few minutes of hasty pride, you may spend weeks or months on the unemployment line.Just my 2 cents!
Get tuff, Real tuff, put on your thinking cap and do some tuff thinking and see if you can figure out a way to help boost the bottom line.
That kind of thinking will help change the chewing to brain storming. (figuring out how to bring in more business)
Telling the owner off will most likely help his bottom line as he can get a manager for less than he is now paying you and not get the big mouth.
That kind of thinking will help change the chewing to brain storming. (figuring out how to bring in more business)
Telling the owner off will most likely help his bottom line as he can get a manager for less than he is now paying you and not get the big mouth.
I worked for a guy like that for 5 years. Biggest employer in that very small town, and well-respected by those who didn't know him well. Great guy- until the day you went to work for him, and then you were scum, bent only on cheating him (he had bought the business after being a cheater himself, so of course he didn't trust anyone under him). When he would start off on one of his rants, if you could remain calm and refute his outbursts with cold, hard, facts, he would back down every time.
I suggest you try putting together a report covering the points he made. Try to take a high road and say something like, "I looked into the concerns (concerns is a word every middle manager needs to use- a lot) you raised, and here are my findings". Don't be surprised if he never looks at your report, but at least you demonstrate that you listened to the substance of his tirade, and you care about the financial performance of the company.
Keep your ear to the ground and your resume up to date. He will not be changing his ways. You can adjust how you deal with it or look for another job.
I suggest you try putting together a report covering the points he made. Try to take a high road and say something like, "I looked into the concerns (concerns is a word every middle manager needs to use- a lot) you raised, and here are my findings". Don't be surprised if he never looks at your report, but at least you demonstrate that you listened to the substance of his tirade, and you care about the financial performance of the company.
Keep your ear to the ground and your resume up to date. He will not be changing his ways. You can adjust how you deal with it or look for another job.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
The boss can fire you but that doesn't mean the boss is always right. There's thousands of people who've successfully proven the boss wrong before a judge. Isn't the President the big boss?Being a manager often means you have to put up with a lot more crap though. That's why a lot people don't want to be a manager or a foreman. The customer isn't always right either. Dave
Lot's of good advice, thanks. I've worked for the man for 10 years and hope to retire from there in 30 more. Lot's of mutual respect. He knows I'll stand up and fight if I need to (for my company or my guys) I think maybe he was blowing steam, I'll let it go unless we discuss it again and I'll have a folder with the facts if he's interested.
Stephen in SoKY
Member
Spacechem has nailed it. Accurate numbers can't be refuted, but do it in a report he can read rather than confronting him where he's likely to think you're questioning his authority.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I consider the day a complete loss if I catch HZLL about something! LOL
JB. Remember owners have different methods of trying to motivate employees. Not every business has the country club atmosphire. Maybe in his own mind & methods he was inspiring others to improve performance, not realizing that extreme critism cold be demeaning. I would continue to perform at your best and not get into a debate. Arguing with the boss, you cannot win. I"m sure your strong work ethic & performance may make him wonder why you remained quiet and didn"t debate him. He will probably come back & ask you for your opinions> That is the time to have your facts to present to him. If he is a half way decent owner, he should be able to compromise on his opinions. Asking his opinion on your ideas would not hurt either> Good luck. Jobs are hard to find.
You might try asking yourself these questions.
Why does his numbers and your not match? Are you not both receiving the same financial reports? Who does the accounting? What budget items aren't on track and can you control them?
Don't point out he was wrong!! Bosses don't like that.
Why does his numbers and your not match? Are you not both receiving the same financial reports? Who does the accounting? What budget items aren't on track and can you control them?
Don't point out he was wrong!! Bosses don't like that.
Just a suggestion,you might start kind of looking around for something else.If the chewing continues for sure get to looking.He may be searching for a reason to keep you and chewing on you to see what will happen.Jobs are hard to find so dont make a lot of waves.However you dont want to be a doormat either.Like after he cools off a couple of days,and if you have some proof of how you are right,then you might try and explain what your side is and show him on paper what you are talking about.He may appreciate another perspective,and then again it could lead to more chewing.You might also want to check and see if getting fired or quitting matters in your state for drawing unemployment.If they can delay it if they fire you maybe dont stir him up.Most of the time they dont just fire you all at once,they appear to give you a couple of chances and then do it.It may or may not have anything to do with what you are being chewed out about.
DickL gave you great advice.
Also, you mention his numbers "were not exactly accurate", but were they close?
As a business owner myself, I can tell you he's feeling heat, whether it's from lower sales and profits, or his banker, or a supplier, or trying to collect long overdue receiveables. There is a lot of pressure in all businesses right now just to survive. He may not have handled it well, or he may have been venting his frustration and you were there, not so much as a target, but as someone that might be able understand the problem and help find a solution.
Is he a person you can approach and ask for his help. Tell him your numbers differ from his and could the two of you go over them to find out why yours are off, since you want to make decisions based on the correct numbers? This puts the onus on you and you won't come off as challenging him.
Unless you're independently wealthy, the last thing I would do in this economy is confront him in any way that might upset him. There is a lot of unemployed talent available for hire and probably at a lower salary.
I've got a mediocre employee pushing for a raise. I've also got a stack of resumes of prospective employees with more experience, willing to work for less. It's an easy decision for me.
Also, you mention his numbers "were not exactly accurate", but were they close?
As a business owner myself, I can tell you he's feeling heat, whether it's from lower sales and profits, or his banker, or a supplier, or trying to collect long overdue receiveables. There is a lot of pressure in all businesses right now just to survive. He may not have handled it well, or he may have been venting his frustration and you were there, not so much as a target, but as someone that might be able understand the problem and help find a solution.
Is he a person you can approach and ask for his help. Tell him your numbers differ from his and could the two of you go over them to find out why yours are off, since you want to make decisions based on the correct numbers? This puts the onus on you and you won't come off as challenging him.
Unless you're independently wealthy, the last thing I would do in this economy is confront him in any way that might upset him. There is a lot of unemployed talent available for hire and probably at a lower salary.
I've got a mediocre employee pushing for a raise. I've also got a stack of resumes of prospective employees with more experience, willing to work for less. It's an easy decision for me.
Flurette Farm
Member
Maybe he was just having a bad day himself for any number of reasons and needed to vent. Of course you being the receiver doesn't make you feel any bettere.
Don't bring up any problems that you don't have a suggested solution for.
If there are differences in your numbers set with him and try to reconcile them.
Remember his success may also be yours.
From one who has been on the receiving end himself many times...Good luck.......
Don't bring up any problems that you don't have a suggested solution for.
If there are differences in your numbers set with him and try to reconcile them.
Remember his success may also be yours.
From one who has been on the receiving end himself many times...Good luck.......
If he's being abusive, man up and put a stop to it, VERY respectfully! Don't lower yourself to his level. My current employer knows when he starts that crap I will get up and walk out. Now when I have screwed up he stays calm and we work it out. You have to train people how to treat you. Part of being a great manager is managing the people above and below you.
couple other things to consider .
Was this a face to face directly to you?, or round table conference?
May be since you have been there longer figured you have bigger shoulders and psychologically telling another in the chain from you down with lesser experience.
He may in fact think you will carry this info he gave you today to the person or persons below you so he dont directly get involved, and have that person quit or feel he is totally personally responsible .
If the Big Boss would confront say a newer guy
the new guy may feel inadequacy and quit.
The boss may feel he / she is a good worker not wanting to fire them , only to prod them into better work habits.
This move can work at a face to face or he could be telling direct in a conferance style meeting but useing you for the goat
If it is not this way I'd say just as others get your ducks in a row and when he calms down show him you figures , ask to compare,--- either of you could have made a mistake.
Was this a face to face directly to you?, or round table conference?
May be since you have been there longer figured you have bigger shoulders and psychologically telling another in the chain from you down with lesser experience.
He may in fact think you will carry this info he gave you today to the person or persons below you so he dont directly get involved, and have that person quit or feel he is totally personally responsible .
If the Big Boss would confront say a newer guy
the new guy may feel inadequacy and quit.
The boss may feel he / she is a good worker not wanting to fire them , only to prod them into better work habits.
This move can work at a face to face or he could be telling direct in a conferance style meeting but useing you for the goat
If it is not this way I'd say just as others get your ducks in a row and when he calms down show him you figures , ask to compare,--- either of you could have made a mistake.
As Sting sang...have you become 'a whippin boy, someone to despise'? Sounds to me like he is taking his spite out on you and you, just being one person in his organization, I highly doubt you deserve such treatment. This situation will not get any better....trust me. I've worked for such illegitimates in the past and such outbursts only tend to serve their self inflated egos. I was in business for several years and rather successful at my endeavors. The bottom line was....the buck stopped with me....not my employees. Ultimately if there was blame to assign, it lay at my feet.
You have got to get his respect somehow, but that chance is probably lost. Sitting there "taking" his crap didn't help, head that kind of abuse off before it ever happens. Now he thinks you are his b&*ch. You may as well look elsewhere. ALWAYS show your boss respect but never let them even get a whiff of using you as a doormat. When things are peachy, tell them stories of how you have stood up for what is right. Present your self as a MAN from day one. Not necessarily violence, but don't ever let anyone else get the mental picture that you are a wuss. You must be a real half man to let things get here. Sorry for being blunt. Hope your resume is polished.
JBMac I know exactly what you are going through today must have been the day !!! You should try being the manager of a lumberyard in this economy. I think today I became the new company punching bag. I am going to let today slide but he very well knows my fuse is getting shorter and he does not wanna cross that line !
Dustin IL
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Read what I said. There is always work for good quality employees. Low quality, incompetent workers get laid off. Central Iowa construction trades, specialty trades like equipment operators, welders,concrete, etc., can't hire qualified help at $20+ per hour. Have to make do with $10 idiots. Keep hiring and firing until you stumble on a good one, then treat him like gold and hope your competition doesn't steal him away.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I worked for 13 months as a parts department manager for a multiline GM dealer a few years back. In the 5 years before I came there, the department was run badly and had NEVER broken even, much less showed a profit. I showed the dealer how much dead inventory we had, and how his previous managers were losing the return allowances they hadn't used. Then I showed him that, with less that $100K in inventory, we had over $30K in obsolescence--parts on hand that hadn't turned in 12 months.
I got the dealer to agree to return the $30K which was above and beyond our accumulated return reserve...at a cost of 30%, which was right at $10K. So when the numbers came in for my first year's operations, if not for the $30K return and its $10K cost, we'd have made money for the year. BUT since it was a loss, I was fired a month later. So the NEXT manager came in with a "clean" inventory, and because I laid the groundwork for him to MAKE money, he's been there ever since.
I did what was right, made the hard decisions that needed to be made to set the place up for profitability, and still got the axe because things didn't turn around quickly enough. The guy who followed became a "hero" by reaping the fruits of the seeds I planted. But that's all water under the bridge, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd still do the same things...because they needed to be done, no matter the personal consequences. [And six months after I left, the boss finally got wise and fired the $5k a month consultant who was bleeding the parts and service departments while hurting our Customer Service Index ratings. If THAT 5K a month had been available, I'd have shown a profit within 12 months despite the $30K return.]
So I'll always sleep well at night knowing I did the right thing...but integrity is hard to use to pay the mortgage and utilities.
I got the dealer to agree to return the $30K which was above and beyond our accumulated return reserve...at a cost of 30%, which was right at $10K. So when the numbers came in for my first year's operations, if not for the $30K return and its $10K cost, we'd have made money for the year. BUT since it was a loss, I was fired a month later. So the NEXT manager came in with a "clean" inventory, and because I laid the groundwork for him to MAKE money, he's been there ever since.
I did what was right, made the hard decisions that needed to be made to set the place up for profitability, and still got the axe because things didn't turn around quickly enough. The guy who followed became a "hero" by reaping the fruits of the seeds I planted. But that's all water under the bridge, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd still do the same things...because they needed to be done, no matter the personal consequences. [And six months after I left, the boss finally got wise and fired the $5k a month consultant who was bleeding the parts and service departments while hurting our Customer Service Index ratings. If THAT 5K a month had been available, I'd have shown a profit within 12 months despite the $30K return.]
So I'll always sleep well at night knowing I did the right thing...but integrity is hard to use to pay the mortgage and utilities.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
There just have to be some mileage in the Global Financial Crisis, you could cite the USA as your example, but when you do front him have your Superman suit on.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Your boss must not be very smart, nor a decent person.. As far as I am concerned, a manager that has to yell and threaten is not worth working for..
John M
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nunyafn business
I was in the same situation not too awful long ago and took it the same as you. After a cooling off period, we sat down and discussed the situation. I was responsible in the long run since it was my job to be, but other factors played in, and I pointed it out to him, and things were better, until the next time......
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
JBMac
Way back when I was a service manager my boss called into his office and told me shop was losing too much $$$$$$$$ and had too many unaccounted for employee hrs & materials.
I then started charging out time to each department for jobs mechanics did such as unloading crates of parts for parts dept. Washing, changing oil & repairing boss's & his families vehicles.
He called me to his office and told me"you can't charge me for working on my own vehicles"!!!!!!!!!! and unloading parts. I own this business and you must stop charging him for labor or parts. So I tied to point out I was accounting for labor & materials but to no avail as he said I must stop this charging immediately.
Maybe you have a similar sitiation.
Keith Molden
Well-known Member
Since you've worked for him for 10 years, you probably know each other pretty well. Give him time to cool off then talk it over with him. Notice I said TALK. Ask what you can do to make the situation better. You might just be surprised at the answer you get. Sometimes even long time employees don't know what pressures the boss is under or what caused him to blow up. Had a boss that blew up like that one time, I thought we were doing pretty well. Two days later he committed suicide because his wife was cheating on him. It really didn't have a thing to do with the business. We just don't have the ability to walk in someone elses shoes. Just my thoughts. Keith
jose bagge
Well-known Member
Get him the right numbers...and then explain that in the end it all boils down to sales, margin and expenses. Sales and margin are what the market will bear, unless he's a sales genius and can improve them. Expenses- fixed are what they are, the only real controllable is payroll/ headcount. He's staying, you're staying: what's he want to do?
You manage the business- he makes the ultimate decisions that you implement. The question to ask is- "in light of yesterday's discussion, and the additional (correct) information I've given you today, these are actions we can take" and give him your options. finally: " what action do you want taken?"
You manage the business- he makes the ultimate decisions that you implement. The question to ask is- "in light of yesterday's discussion, and the additional (correct) information I've given you today, these are actions we can take" and give him your options. finally: " what action do you want taken?"
see spacechem's reply below. I would NOT do anything in the morning. Get ALL the facts, and present it in as positive light as possible not pointing out he was wrong. If the company is in trouble maybe your correct info can help the comp (and therefore you too). I'd wait until next Tues at the earliest. I have often used logic with much success with bosses/supervisors over the years. You must be tactful. If not or your personality can't, let it slide and or find a job where you don't have to use tact. (no offense).
I tell my kids... "If you do what is right, you never have to worry about being wrong"... the trick in life is figuring out what is right and having the sense and faith to use it.
Good luck.
I tell my kids... "If you do what is right, you never have to worry about being wrong"... the trick in life is figuring out what is right and having the sense and faith to use it.
Good luck.
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