Fence Etiquette

Growing up we were bordered by a railroad and a river, so we had no shared fences with neighbors to deal with.
Now I got a place with two shared fences. One side is a scrub wood lot, some big oaks and lots of yaupon (a big evergreen shrub that gets about 12' high and just keeps spreading). This side is owned by a family trust with an address several hundred miles away. I had a couple of big oaks down over the fence that I've cleared out, and cut out a lot of the yaupon on my side. The oaks have been down for years, no evidence that anyone on that side has even looked at their property in years. Barbed wire fence is pretty old but was holding the cattle in because there was nothing attractive on that side.
Other side owned by a retired cattle farmer, pasture land that has not been grazed in some years and will badly need brush hogged in a few years. Some yaupon and thorny scrub trees trying to take over the fence row, but not too bad right now. I'd sure like to take my brush hog and make a few runs down his side, would benefit both of us. This guy has a large tractor, but it doesn't look like he's done much to maintain his property recently. Haven't met him, but I suspect it may be age or health related. it may be age, health
I'm clearing out my side as time allows, but what are your experiences in getting neighbors to allow access on their side? How about getting them to chip in for some new posts and barbed wire? Any luck in getting them to chip in when their large trees fall across the fence? I have no idea who originally built the fences, but I'm going to have to upgrade before I turn any cattle in.
I've resigned myself to doing it all myself, but I'd appreciate any comments.
Note: tractor related since there's a tractor inside this fence.

start with a visit or phone call first ,the older neighbor close may be easier to work with than people several hundred miles away . But either way explain your intentions clearly to them ya never know as people are just plain wierd .

Talk to the old guy he may let you use his pasture for a few years if you brush hog it and clean it up maybe replant some grass.
On the other side it looks like a loosing deal but try to get hold of the owner and see what you can do. Build and pay for the fence yourself its makes good for neighbors.

around here when facing the neighbors property you are responsible for the half to your right They are responsible for the other half. Getting them to fix it may be another story but for that and access all you can do is ask.

in wi, if they don't keep a needed fence up, the township hires someone to fix it and the bill for it is added to the taxes. It seldom gets that far because neighbors try to work it out.

Same etiquette here in SD. Facing the fence when on your property you are respon for right half.
I'd approach the far side guy and tell him you want to run some livestock on your side. Offer to do the installation if he buys the material for his half. When you pull the old fence bushog the fenceline fairly wide. See if he wants to rent or lease his pasture.

Gordo

Dan, where you live, I don't think you will find that any neighbor has any fencing responsibility. Some are real good about sharing material cost/labor, others will tell you to get lost. You best not go messing around on their side without their permission.

ya that is the way it was but not anymore. now if they have no need for a fence the courts will not make them build one but if you need one then you must build it things have change from years ago. and now days the town has no real say

In 2008 I asked my neighbor if he was willing to pay 1/2 the cost of the new fence on his side of the property I was having installed. He said he would think about it and never responded. Several months later he had a crew started installing a new 6 foot fence from Lowes. He ran that fence parallel to my new fence about 30" away on one end and about 24" on the other end leaving a space he can't maintain.

The neighbor on the other side of this guy has taken him to court since the fence is in violation of the covenants in the development that were established in 1962 when the property was first developed. The judge has yet to render his opinion. We were in court starting in July 2009 and I forget how many times in between and the last time was Nov 2009. Still no word on the outcome. My neighbor across from me has a brother that's an attorney and he told her this should've been decided in about 3 days. Hal

I"m no farmer, just a decent fellow who would suggest you invite him in for coffee & cake,make him feel at home so to speak. Get to know him better , then ask his advice on whether he would be willing to think on your problem. Remember, you catch more fly"s with sugar then with vinegar. Just a suggestion. Hope it works out for you and him both.
LOU

Dan, i'm about 100 miles southwest of you in Colorado County...nothing legal to get neighbor to pitch in on fences...most of the time i feel lucky that they just dont object or get in the way...i got one neighbor that shared fence costs and we did labor...figures he just rents the land...at one time i had land in 4 counties...spent all my "spare time" running around fixin fence.
good luck

(quoted from post at 20:59:44 01/12/10) I"m no farmer, just a decent fellow who would suggest you invite him in for coffee & cake,make him feel at home so to speak. Get to know him better , then ask his advice on whether he would be willing to think on your problem. Remember, you catch more fly"s with sugar then with vinegar. Just a suggestion. Hope it works out for you and him both.
LOU

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men! The courts are primarily beneficial for lawyers.

Neighbors on one side of farm here have rotten fence and horses always getting out. They decided that they need a new fence and are asking adjoining neighbors to contribute. The area next to me is not holding any of my stock so I have no interest in fence. Go to it. I did tell them to get survey and put fence on line. Survey is done but no fence yet. Around down here both parties keep up fence if there is common use on both sides. No obligation if not using adjoining side. No attorneys, court cases or being sued BS. Always somebody screwing with somebody just because they can.

I think having him over is a good idea. Then you can see what he's like. As far as fencing goes, I've heard that if both parties need a fence for livestock, then both parties have to share the cost of the fence. If one party doesn't need a fence, you can't make them pay for one. A good neighbor could help with the labor to put it up though. Dave

Check your state laws regarding fencing- big difference in Fence law states and Open Range states. Other issue is boundary fences. Case out of Kentucky or Tennesee- guy wanted fancy horses and set high pasture fence at boundaries- charged neighbors 1/2 the cost and state law said they had to pay their share for boundary fence- noted fence as installed was over priced but nobody had objected to his fence plans when he sent them notice. Guy was later shot. Fence law states base is: if you want critters - you fence them in. Range law states basis is : if you want to grow crops- you fence wandering cattle, etc out. Avoiding court is nice- a check of state laws helps to avoid hassles. RN

Seems you might want to verify property lines and see if the fences are actually on lines, or offset. In my area, farmers who build fences usually keep them 5 feet inside the line, so they alway have access to both sides for repair.

I have property bordering a landowner who lives about 6 hours away. He has no livestock, and when I replace any border fence, I leave all of the trees that have old fence attached to them. I cut the old wire off about a foot from the tree. I like him to know that the fence is still in the same location that his and my ancestors agreed upon. I've always been blessed with good neighbors, and I always take the high road with them, the same as they do with me - it always pays off. I hope you have the same experience with your neighbors.

Paul

(quoted from post at 23:20:15 01/12/10) I have property bordering a landowner who lives about 6 hours away. He has no livestock, and when I replace any border fence, I leave all of the trees that have old fence attached to them. I cut the old wire off about a foot from the tree. I like him to know that the fence is still in the same location that his and my ancestors agreed upon. I've always been blessed with good neighbors, and I always take the high road with them, the same as they do with me - it always pays off. I hope you have the same experience with your neighbors.

Paul

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s always, local laws differ.
PJH, good...just as I do. Here, if the fence has been there long enough & uncontested, that is the boundary regardless of survey.......which is an excellent reason to put fence on boundary, not inside, unless you are giving away land.

Please talk to other land owner, let him know what your intensions are. I don't know about your state, but this right to left thing (looking at your side) is a traditional thing among a lot of farmers, but not in Fenceing Laws.
My 2 cents.
Led

I'd talk to the fella in a friendly way. You'll likely get somewhere, if you don't _expect_ anything and just meet with the fella. Hey neighbor, howdy.... Now, if you walk in & say I need the fence cleared, I need to work on your land, I really should get money from you, and you need to pay for your 1/2 of the fence too just like the law says... Well then it'll probably be a real short converation for you. Attitude is everything....

Many locations have this sort of thing covered in law, and the right/left rule thing is common. But - if you are the only one with cattle, it really kinda should be your nickel on the line. If you bring the subject up, you should know what the law says as it applies in your county. But.... You do want to be a neighbor, not a money collector. Think about whom the fence is helping, and how it all works out for everyone.

The trust/estate/managed property deal - sometimes best to leave those sleeping dogs lie. They can be tough to deal with, very very slow, but once you show up on their radar they can envoke the laws all to their favor from another state so you have a ell of a time doing anything in return.....

Not really any help, just some personal thoughts.

--->Paul

Didn't the law state standard post and wire fences??, if someone wants 8ft fences they pay for the additional. seems fair.

You can probably find out all you need to know about your state fence laws by simply doing a google search on the subject. Best to know what your rights and responsibilities as a land owner are before making any contact with the neighbors. Don't jump to any conclusions, or into any negotiations, without knowing the facts first. There are to many things that enter into the law, ie. zoning, whether the landowners on both sides of the fence are confining livestock, etc. Know the law, and what leverage you may, or may not have, then try talking to the neighbors in a friendly manner. The deal with your neighbors having ungrazed pastures that need mowing just befuddles me. In this country, good pasture rents for premium prices, and nothing goes ungrazed. I'd be trying to rent that ground. Good luck!! :wink:

I don't think stsrting the discussion by quoting the law will do anything but sour the relationship. I'd start out friendly and helpful.
He should get the benefit if you mow his side of the fence. You can always fall back on the law if it ever comes to that.

Did your wife explain the divorce laws to you on your fiist date?

Here in southernOntario we had our pioneers come up with fence laws in every township.If I stand in front of my farm looking toward it the law is simple..the fence line on my right, I'm responsible for the back half meaning the distance from the halfway point right to the back of my farm. On the left side I am responsible for the front half of the fenceline. That meant maintaining a proper fence between neighbours and keeping it in repair as long as they have livestock. The problem with that is that today someone could buy the property beside me and decide to run cattle and I would have to pay for half the cost of a new fence. In addition to the fence, maintaining the fence line by cutting brush and trees out of is applied the same way..thus no one could tell me I couldn't cut trees to clean it up and I could request trees cut by the neighbour responsible for the other half. Just recently our next door neighbour wanted a fence line along a ditch cleaned up and my SIL and he agreed to share the cost. Another neighbour agreed to share the cost of cleaning out the ditch at the same time..two days with a High Hoe and the job is done, around three thousand ..trees gone shrubs gone, ditch cleaned and everything shoved up in a big heap to dry out and burn...Done!

2 reasons to build fence.
to keep you cattle in
to keep cattle out.
If he doesnt want your cattle on his side, he has to build a fence.
If your neighbors cattle get out and enter
your fields with out you having a fence he is not responsible. You have to keep his cattle out.

That depends on the state that you're in. In an "open range" state,it's true,but most states,Michigan being one of them for sure,you're responsible for keeping your cattle in.
Used to be that you were responsible for the right hand half of the line fence as you were facing it. That was back when everybody had livestock. Try getting anybody to maintain their end now. Good luck. I refenced all of my home 80 in 2001. Shared it with 5 neighbors. I paid for the whole thing and did all the work since I was the only one that needed it. Worst part of it was,some of them b!tched because they couldn't drive on my land anymore to get to the back of their places! ONE EVEN WANTED ME TO PUT IN GATES!

I would send a letter to the trust asking them that they maintain the trees on their side of the fence and the fence it's self. Like some one else said, you can put up a fence to keep cows in or out, if they won't fence the cows out, the land owner on the other side of them will, graze the woods till they tell you diffrent. On the other side, I would plan to spend an afternoon with the old man next door and get to know him pretty good. You will be able to tell in an hour what his answer is going to be. Start off by asking if you can mow along the fence, if that goes good ask him if you mow the rest of the joint and start haying it for him on the shares. You ain't gonna find any hay to buy any closer!!!!

Dave

In our state it used to be that when you stood in the middle of a fence row,you kept the right hand half up,your neighbor kept his right hand fence up,but now wiht so many city folk moving out in the country they changed the law,who ever has the critters builds the whole fence.If you want to run horses you build the fence.In a way thats right to.