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O/T Rifle Question

J

JBMac76

Member
Not too far O/T, we use it on the farm. We have an old Marlin .30-.30 we've dug out of the safe to keep feral hogs under control. We have tried two different scopes on it, and the iron sights, but it still shoots all over the place (30" groups at 100 yds,with 3 different men shooting.
Do rifles ever wear out? I've never seen one shoot erratically like this. Any ideas?
 
Have you cleaned the barrel good? Examine it with small piece of paper or small mirror and bright light by looking into the bore. Tom
 
If it is an old one as you say ,it is probably worn out at the muzzle .If was cleaned with a steel rod and the rifling is probably gone from the end down about an inch which will cause the shot pattern you describe.Not much can be done but send it of and have it bored and a liner put in.
 
Yes rifles do wear out but it requires alot of shooting without cleaning! Also the barrels can bend if they get dropped or have something sitting on them for a long period of time putting downforce on the center of the barrel or even if the barrel/weapon has been used as prybar(seen that one in the military on the m-16's). It could also be as simple as the ammo you are useing! Are you useing cheap ammo? All the ammo you buy at say Wal-Mart is made in a factory and the grains of power are usually nowhere close to being the same in each and every single round. I would try some hand loaded rounds first and narrow it down.
Now as for the feral hogs go! Me and a good buddy of mine have been looking for a place to go bowhunting for hogs. I am from NE Kansas and was even planning on heading to Oklahoma this week to try and find a place. Not sure where you are located but I would be MORE than willing to help you out.
 
Barrel Cal. has been increased due to excesssive wear allowing the bullet to wander .Shine a light in the barrel from the chamber end and look from the discharge end down the barrel and see if the lands and grooves are still evident. The old timers would rebore and regroove "shot out rifling " to another Caliber,usually one not standard,such as a 50 Cal. to a 52 cal.A new Barrel,if available, will probably bring the rifle back to practical standards and allow precision groups.
 
I disagree with the "factory ammo" information you were given. With the changes in technology and the demands that hunters have put on these companies, their standards are much better that they were many years ago.

Buy some gun cleaning solution that will remove copper and try to plug the barrel with a rag. Fill the barrel with the gun cleaner and set it in a plastic bucket in a corner for a while. After a day try to clean it as you normally would a rifle.

If that does not help, recheck the scope mount. Although, if the iron sights provide the same results , it must a barrel issue, and you will need a gun smith to repair it for you.
SDE
 
Lever action guns aren't known for accuracy, but it should be shooting a lot better than that. My guess is there's some looseness between the barrel and forearm, or between the action and buttstock. Everything needs to be tight for the rifle to shoot consistent.

If, as suggested, the barrel crown has been damaged by improper cleaning, a gunsmith can put a new crown on it. If there's wear in the barrel, that usually occurs in the chamber throat. It takes thousands of rounds to wear out a thirty-thirty barrel, though. (.30-30 loads use fast-burning powders that don't cause much barrel erosion. Big magnums, on the other hand, quickly wear out barrels due to the very slow powders they use.)

I would be very suspicious of the scope and scope mounts. Are you sure that the gun shoots bad with iron sights, or is it possible that it's actually much worse with the scope? You might try putting a Williams peep sight on the receiver, which will be much more accurate than the factory iron sights. My experience with scoped rifles is that most cheaper scope mounts will not hold zero, and I have yet to find an inexpensive scope that will hold zero.
 
Like others say, Barrel might be leaded. Look real close at the very end. I've seen 22s corrected by re-crowning. If leaded, fill with mercury and wire brush.
 
What others said.

I have a Marlin lever action 30-30. My wife bought it new with a scope on it. I could never hit the side of a barn with it with the scope. I missed more easy shots at deer than I like to think about. Yet, firing at a target, I could fire a three inch group at 100 yards.

One day, I finally took the scope off, leaned across the hood of a pickup, and shot a blackbird out of a tree at 50 yards. The unanswered question is, if I can nail a stray tomcat with it at 50 yards with the open sights, why couldn't I hit a deer at the same range with the scope on? There was something seriously wrong with the scope. I never did figure it out. Now use a Remington .270 for deer.
 
MAke sure it is clean and not lead fouled as others have mentioned . As far as scopes go cheap scopes make a great gun shoot bad. Get the best scope you can afford . You will see better results with a great scope on a so so gun vrs a great gun with a so so scope . I have had a few scopes that the reticle came loose inside , they looked fine , but could never hit the same sopt twice . I doubt the gun is wore out , would take a lot of shooting and abuse . The crown could be damaged . Easy for gunsmith to repair . I LOVE the new Vtip ammo for the 30-30 gets out to 200 yards pretty god now where as before it was a hundred yard gun at best .
 
Have an experienced gunsmith or armorer examine
your rifle if possible. If the muzzle rifling or
crown are damaged, they may be able to cut and
recrown your barrel for a reasonable cost.

I would look for a good SKS 7.62 x 39 for a feral
pig gun. I have sighted in several for people over the last 30 years and haven't shot one yet that wasn't a good shooter. The only modification
that I like to make on them is to cut the rear sight groove with a round chain saw file. File it half way down into the rear leaf to give yourself an open top peep sight. It provides the best open sight imaginable for moving targets.
It naturally draws your front sight to the center of the circle, but the open top doesn't cover up your target.
 
As my eyes deteriorated--but before I got glasses--I had a scope mounted on my Winchester 1400 shotgun. For a couple of seasons, all was well and good. Then one year when I went to sight it in before deer season, suddenly the gun wouldn't shoot in the same spot twice.

Problem turned out to be that one of the mounting holes in the aluminum saddle mount for the scope had pulled and elongated...which meant that every time you fired, the scope moved. So I tossed the scope mount, mounted the 4X scope in my .22, and stuck a set of fiber optic sights on the vent rib of the 1400. I've been a happy camper ever since.
 
There are a lot of really good bore cleaners on the market today. I was surprised how much swabbing my 30-06 took once I squirted some of one of the foaming products down the bore. I have a cousin who uses an aluminum cleaning rod in a drill and turns the brass brush at low speed to clean them up.

Bullet speed has more to do with wiping out a barrel then the powder, unless you are using black powder or corrosive primers. But if the barrel is shot out, 32 special is an easily obtained re-bore. It is the same shell expanded out to hold a .32 cal bullet instead of a .308 bullet.

Have you tried shooting it from some sort of rest? IF you don't line up iron sights the same way each time, you can throw off your point of impact. Also focus on the front sight, not the rear.
 
We had an old Marlin 30-30 my dad bought used. Over the years we never were satisfied with it's consistancy. We took it to a jack leg gun smith who proclaimed that the barrel was bent. He took it off and said he had straightened it. It was maybe a little better but not much. Finally after years of frustration he contacted Marlin, shipped it off and they re-barreled it. That solved the issue.

If it's not a sentimental issue you may be money ahead to just hang it over the mantle and look for a different gun.

Gene
 
take a look at the crown at the end of the barrel one good size nick will throw you off, you can lap a nick out with a round head screw and lapping compound al
 
If someone already bored it to .32Win special, the .30-30 amo will be pretty loose in the bore! A gunsmith for an analysis is a best and safest procedure. Jim
 
Sounds to me like you've got something loose. The 32 caliber guns were known for shooting lousy once they had even slight barrel wear. But the 30-30 shoots "well" even with a worn barrel, especially in most Marlin lever-actions. But, if the barrel and/or stock is loose,or head space is excessive, it will shoot all over the place.

Do the empty cartridges eject easy and look good?
 
Brass pile up in a barrel will drive you nuts. Might be something as that. You can't see it without a bore scope. It takes a solution and electric process to get it cleaned out. Some gun smiths at Gandermoutain, or Carbelas will do it.
 

If you are using any cheap scope like a Weaver, and cheap scope-mounts..you can not be confident of accuracy..

Once I opted for a Leupld on my Ruger .223 target rifle, it became like a laser and is dead-on every time ..Well worth the money..

An old friend showed me a .22 WRF of his that the bullets would "Key-hole" (strike side-ways)..turned out it was so heavily leaded that you could not see the rifling !!

Took weeks to clean it up, but accuracy returned.
Many things affect accuracy..not the least of which is how well the trigger works..
Ideally, it should "Break" cleanly and crisply without a real heavy pull and with NO "Creep"..
They very seldom come from the factory that way, and you or a gun-smith have to carefully work on the sear, to get it that way..
I use a diamond file and Crocus cloth to polish the sliding parts, to a full polished finish, then apply a super-slippery "Stainless grease"..
With a bi-pod, at 200 yds, I see the groundhog start to flip, before the gun jumps..!!!
Ron.
 
Is your ammo old? have you tried different brands of ammo? If it were me I would try this before I spent any money on gunsmiths. good luck JD
 
A friend was complaining of the same thing a year ago when he went to sight one in before deer season. Said he felt pretty fooling when he discovered he'd picked up the wrong box of bullets when he walked out the door.
 
Yes gun barrels do in fact wear out if shoot many many times over the years. Also some powders are corrosive and if used a lot and not cleaned will take out the rifling's and that will make one shoot bad. I would clean it up good and inspect the bore to see if you still have a good twist in the rifalings (sp) Oh by the way a good gun smith can replace the barrel but it might not be worth the $$ to do so and that gun maybe a wall hanger like a coupe I have. I have one I would not think about shooting even if I could find ammo for it and I have never found ammo yet and have had it for a decade or more
 
Do you have real old ammo?
Can you get handloaded precision ammo?
Is the barrel loose?
Is the scope tight on the gun?
Is the ammo imported? or USA made.
When was the last time the gun was cleaned?
Check all these things then shoot it again.
 
I'm willing to bet if you clean the barrel, then look down it you will find a rust ring about the end of either the magazine tube or forearm. If you look closely you will also find a slight swell on the outside of the barrel at that location too. Might have to have some oil for a shine to see it. I had a Marlin 22 that I bought it would do just what your talking about. I sent it to Marlin they rebarreled it now will drive tacks. It was a while ago only cost $60.00 had a new magazine tube too.
 
Clean barrel good, then clean again. bore snakes seem to help for some people. Lead slug or buckshot pushed down barrel will give a measurable rifling impression and tell if bore is worn beyond specs. If crown is worn and don't want to rebarrel- see if gunsmith can do a recessed recrown job. This means you end up with 1/2 inch to inch or so of smoothbore at end of barrel and crown recessed. Crown rubs known to happen when cleaning rod is used from muzzle end without bore sleeve/cleaning cap- unfortunately the lever actions are the main ones to get this type of cleaning and have the egg shaped, nicked crowns. Reccessed crown sometimes on target rifles or black powder rifles, cleaning rods have a plastic sleeve that fits in smoothbore end and acts as cleaning cap instead of using a false muzzle like the old Pope target rifles. RN
 
RN?I have just took posession of a Remington-7400 and7600.Was wondering about cleaning from the muzzle end,as I have only cleaned bolt actions from the bore end.What is a bore sleeve/cleaning cap?Is it something easy to find,will it fit any cleaning rod?Would apreciate more info on these items.

Thanks
Stan
 
you must have the one i had some years back. from day one you could not hit a bull in the -ss at 30 yards just would not shoot straight with any load
 
A great website for questions related to guns--esp. lever-action guns--is leverguns.com
Top people there who very knowledgeable about all guns.

For buying guns I find GunsAmerica the best and have made some good buys there.

Don
 
Rifle might be a 32 special.Micro rifling will not shoot lead bullets well.A leaded micro groove wont shoot right.Take a 30 30 cartridge and see if the bullet slips into the muzzle.If it does you have a badly worn barrel or a 32 special.
 
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