I was going to pick up a little bottle of oil to mix up a gallon of fuel for the ice auger to go ice fishing this weekend. I have not used my fairly new auger for couple of seasons. Anyway the new bottle of oil by the company that made my auger(strikemaster) now says 40:1 mix ratio and the last time I bought one it was 24:1 mix ratio. Now I am confused. Even says on the engine to mix 24:1. Are the oils getting that good or what gives?
- Thread starter SMHimrod
- Start date
I think this has something to do with EPA emissions requirements. I am by no means an expert on this subject, but if it were me, I think I would do as already suggested and mix it with half the gasoline. That should give you 20:1 and while that still isn't perfect, it's a lot closer than 40:1.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Yes, the oils are better. Some synthetics claim they can be mixed at 100-1. The manufacturer may have a different supplier for their oil as well. Dave
I came across the same thing with my chain saw....Stiehl said to use 50:1 but other 2 stroke references are 25:1. Since 1 gallon is 128 ozs. and I have the original 2 oz. oil bottle from Stiehl I just fill the bottle and then give a little more to be safe. This way its around 40:1 or so.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Oil is mo' better now. I'll bet if you look at the new bottle you'll find it meets the JASO FD and/or ISO EGD specs. 40:1 should be fine, although if you feel more comfortable running it richer the worst that will happen is your plug will foul a little sooner.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
I think the oils are much better than in the past, the important thing is use oil designed for air cooled engines in air cooled engines, not outboard oil. Far different operating temperatures. I have also heard 50-1 is to satisfy the EPA and the engines will last longer at 40-1.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
From the Strikemaster site:
"Quality two cycle oils (Regular or Synthetic) are approved for use in the Solo engine.
Mixture ratio MUST NOT exceed 50:1
Mixture ratios over 50:1 will VOID all warranties.
"StrikeMaster 2 cycle oil meets OEM approved global oil specifications ISO-E-GD and API TC for use in all 2 cycle air cooled engines. Approved for SOLO and Tecumseh engines.
SOLO 2 cycle oil meets OEM approved global oil specifications ISO-L-EGD, JASO FD for use in all 2 cycle air cooled engines."
Strikemaster FAQ
"Quality two cycle oils (Regular or Synthetic) are approved for use in the Solo engine.
Mixture ratio MUST NOT exceed 50:1
Mixture ratios over 50:1 will VOID all warranties.
"StrikeMaster 2 cycle oil meets OEM approved global oil specifications ISO-E-GD and API TC for use in all 2 cycle air cooled engines. Approved for SOLO and Tecumseh engines.
SOLO 2 cycle oil meets OEM approved global oil specifications ISO-L-EGD, JASO FD for use in all 2 cycle air cooled engines."
Strikemaster FAQ
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
More oil is not better. Too much can cause detonation and burn a hole through the piston or break rings/score cylinder walls.
Extra oil also fouls plugs and plugs ports.
Extra oil also fouls plugs and plugs ports.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I buy the 50-1 oil and always mix it 32-1 for my older 2 strokes and also use it in my newer engines, without any problems for many years. I don't agree that a little more oil is going to cause problems. Might not be good to mix at a very rich 16-1 which is the old standard for non-2 stroke oils, but a little more provides a safety margin.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Old engines calling for 16 to 1 or 20 to 1 had lower compression ratios than today's 50 to 1 engines.
Extra oil in a modern high compression engine will do more harm than good.
When the engine is lubed sufficiently with 50 to 1. How does adding a thicker layer of oil lube anything any better?
Extra oil in a modern high compression engine will do more harm than good.
When the engine is lubed sufficiently with 50 to 1. How does adding a thicker layer of oil lube anything any better?
We were talking about this the other day at work.
Is the ratio differences because of the oil or do some engine manufacturers maybe use tighter bearing clearances etc. Whatever brand of oil you choose if it says 24:1 or 40:1 doesn't it mean that, that particular oil in that ratio shoulod run a 2cycle engine with adequate lubrication? Or if your engine says 20:1 does it mean that maybe the clearances are tighter and needs more oil by design? Steven
Is the ratio differences because of the oil or do some engine manufacturers maybe use tighter bearing clearances etc. Whatever brand of oil you choose if it says 24:1 or 40:1 doesn't it mean that, that particular oil in that ratio shoulod run a 2cycle engine with adequate lubrication? Or if your engine says 20:1 does it mean that maybe the clearances are tighter and needs more oil by design? Steven
Too much oil will burn a hole through a piston? And cause detonation? Do you know anything about a 2 cycle? What exactly is a "plug port" I have worked on Arctic Cat snowmobiles for 9 years and I have never heard of a plug port.. Too much oil will never cause anything like you said. It will foul out a spark plug, or cause a engine to be less efficent, or make less power, but never what you said. Detonation occures with poor quality gasoline.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
While I didn't word the phrase very well. You have to be trying not to understand.
fouls plugs and plugs ports = fouls plugs and leaves deposits in ports.
Ever check the octane rating of oil with gasoline? The more oil mixed with gasoline, the lower the overall average octane of the air-fuel mixture.
fouls plugs and plugs ports = fouls plugs and leaves deposits in ports.
Ever check the octane rating of oil with gasoline? The more oil mixed with gasoline, the lower the overall average octane of the air-fuel mixture.
Amsoil is one of those 100:1 oils and I can personally attest to them. That lean of oil mixture means more gas in the mix and that means a lot more power... a lot more depending on engine! I have yet to score a cylinder and I have an O29 Stihl that I opened up the exhaust and leaned her way out and run at 100:1. Been that way for two years and runs like a raped ape, idles just perfect too. They actually tested that Amsoil (Sabre 100:1 premix) at 200:1 and it lubed enough that it still didn't score a cylinder. I know a lot of guys won't beleive that but there are a lot of guys afraid of change or new technology.
Octane rating of oil with gasoline? That makes no sense at all. How would that burn a hole in a piston? Most 2 stroke failures are from to lean, gas oil mix, ie too hot. Crank bearings dont get enough lube and fail, piston gets hot and could seize, a gas oil mix too lean, and carb screws set wrong will cause more damage than a rich mix will.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Lets try this again.
Lube oil ignites at a lower temperature than gasoline. = the more oil in the combustion chamber, the more likely the engine will suffer detonation.
If you won't believe me, read up some on the topic.
Lube oil ignites at a lower temperature than gasoline. = the more oil in the combustion chamber, the more likely the engine will suffer detonation.
If you won't believe me, read up some on the topic.
Now if you buy the little couple ounce jugs they are designed to mix with 1 gallon of gas and tell you what the ratio is.
If you buy a pint or larger they usually give you mixing ratios on the back..I agree with these guys that too much oil is not in the best interest of your 2 stroke.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I can see why Arctic Cat doesn't have you as a dealer or tech anymore.
As soon as I hear somebody say they know everything, Quote" I don't need to read up on anything' Unquote. There is the positive indication the individual does not know everything.
Here is a link to Rotax. They know something about two stroke engines. Rotax builds and certifies two strokes for use in airplanes.
Quote" when fuel is premixed with 2-stroke oil, the octane rating is reduced by about 2 points. An 87 octane fuel would therefore become 85 octane." Unquote
Therefore:Adding extra oil to the gasoline will drop the octane lower yet.
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm
As soon as I hear somebody say they know everything, Quote" I don't need to read up on anything' Unquote. There is the positive indication the individual does not know everything.
Here is a link to Rotax. They know something about two stroke engines. Rotax builds and certifies two strokes for use in airplanes.
Quote" when fuel is premixed with 2-stroke oil, the octane rating is reduced by about 2 points. An 87 octane fuel would therefore become 85 octane." Unquote
Therefore:Adding extra oil to the gasoline will drop the octane lower yet.
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Get a high performance 2 stroke with power valves and you'll learn pretty fast not to add too much oil. It does gum things up and make power valves stick. Other than pro's who have mechanics, most people don't want to have to tear their engines down every couple of uses. The oils are better and can be mixed at 50-1 and even 100-1 in some cases. A lot of people use premium gas but most people don't go to higher octane unless they experience detonation, pinging and other low octane related problems. Dave
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
No, oil hasn't improved much in two years. The JASO FD and ISO EGD have been around much longer than that. But maybe it's taken longer for some manufacturers to get enough experience with the newer oils to change their recommendations.
I would note that outboard motors have been running 50:1 since the late sixties. And some went to 100:1 in the late eighties.
I would note that outboard motors have been running 50:1 since the late sixties. And some went to 100:1 in the late eighties.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Keep it simple. Buy yourself a small one-shot bottle of Stihl oil which is pre-measured to achive a 50:1 mix. Take a clean empty gas container to station and put in exactly 0.80 gallon of 92 or 93 octane gas and add the little bottle of oil. Add Stabil at recommended rate. Shake well. You now have 40:1 ratio of high quality mix. After it is 2 months old, dont use it in small engines, pour it in your gas pickup truck and repeat the procedure. I have done it this way for years, except I use 0.90 gallon of gas giving me a 45:1. Never had a plug foul, never had to clean carb, have avoided all problems. Tom
MasseyTodd
Member
I purchase a higher quality 2 stroke oil in gallon jugs, usually Polaris, Amsoil, Arctic Cat, etc. I have a Ratio-Rite measuring cup to match the correct amount of oil to the amount of gas I am mixing. 3.2 oz. per gallon makes a 40:1 ratio. Never had an issue with this mixture.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Read it again. There is a world of difference between "plugs ports" and "plug ports". You are going all the way from a verb to a noun which completely changes the contest of the sentence when you eliminated the "s" that I used.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Read it again. There is a world of difference between "plugs ports" and "plug ports". You are going all the way from a verb to a noun which completely changes the contest of the sentence when you eliminated the "s" that I used.
Life's pretty earnest for you, isn't it? That sailed right past you. We're lucky I merely turned a verb into a noun- usually, it ends up something like a plu-perfect gerund when I'm done with it.
I'm making a little side bet as to what your reply to this will be- I'll let you know if I'm right.
I'm making a little side bet as to what your reply to this will be- I'll let you know if I'm right.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I like the lean mixes to cut down on smoke. Remember when you could see a 2 cycle motor bike comming before you could hear it. These small 2 cycle engines are pretty much throw away items anymore so I cant get too excited about it.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Never had any of potential problems that you have mentioned and firmly believe although a little more oil might hurt power a little, it provides at the minimum a larger safety factor and possibly could improve reciprocating parts life. So unless any of my newer 2 cycles go belly up from using a little more oil, or I'm racing gocarts or something similar, then I'm not going to be the one to verify gas/oil ratio limitations.
teddy52food
Well-known Member
Extra oil builds up carbon & hot carbon can cause detonation. Buick&deere is right.It plugs up the exaust ports and the engine can't breathe the way it should. Then they run hotter. Lawn Boy push mowers were good for plugged ex ports.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Ever read the entire break-in instructions?By now most of you maybe at least considering accepting the fact that lube oil in the combustion chamber lowers fuel octane.
Applys to worn four strokes as well which draw oil into the combustion chamber. Octane requirements can increase with engine age.
Any break-in instructions I've ever seen say to avoid continuous max rpm and max HP operations.
" Continuous max rpm and max HP operations" is when heat builds up and combustion chamber pressures are max. Isn't that when octane requirements are the highest and the engine most prone to detonation?
Once there is a layer of lube oil between the moving metal surfaces. How do some people think that any extra oil is going to improve lubrication? The extra surface oil is just going to be scrapped or forced away.Wet is wet.
Lube oil lowering fuel octane is another reason why spending a few more cents for 91 or 94 octane gasoline instead of the 87. Its good insurance.
Today's two strokes run faster and with more compression than two strokes of the 50's,60's and 70's. Extra lube oil is going to harm rather than help.
Applys to worn four strokes as well which draw oil into the combustion chamber. Octane requirements can increase with engine age.
Any break-in instructions I've ever seen say to avoid continuous max rpm and max HP operations.
" Continuous max rpm and max HP operations" is when heat builds up and combustion chamber pressures are max. Isn't that when octane requirements are the highest and the engine most prone to detonation?
Once there is a layer of lube oil between the moving metal surfaces. How do some people think that any extra oil is going to improve lubrication? The extra surface oil is just going to be scrapped or forced away.Wet is wet.
Lube oil lowering fuel octane is another reason why spending a few more cents for 91 or 94 octane gasoline instead of the 87. Its good insurance.
Today's two strokes run faster and with more compression than two strokes of the 50's,60's and 70's. Extra lube oil is going to harm rather than help.
Last I knew, and pretty sure they still do it, we were told, when we sold a new snowmobile, which are oil injected, to put 50:1 gas in the tank for the customer for there first use of it. We also told them what you said, dont hold it wide open, or at a steady rpm, vairy the rpms. The Suzuki engines with power valves also required use of Arctic Cat APV 2 cycle oil,or a synthetic oil, Amisoil, or what have you, so as not to gum up the power valves. We would check the valves when we did service on some high mile sleds for build up, and proper valve operation. J
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