OT/ Need help with '04 Freightshaker

Bkpigs · Dec 16, 2009

Guys,

FIL has an '04 Freightliner with a Mercedes-Benz motor. Well the starter went out so we replace with a NEW one (made in China). Put it on and it wouldn't turn the motor over. It would engage the flywheel but no turn. Cleaned all connections and still no luck.

Got a rebuilt Delco (same as the original one) with the overcrank protection. It won't turn over either. The motor is loose I can turn the flywheel with a prybar. The positive cable looks good. Grounds are all good. I am getting tired of taking this starter off and putting it on myself.

Any help would be very appreciated.

Tired arms in So IL.

showcrop · Dec 16, 2009

try pulling your starter ground lug right off the frame and check under it.

Bkpigs · Dec 16, 2009

It uses the starter as the grounding spot. All grounds go to a stud on the starter body. There is a cable that goes from the grounding stud to the frame but the negative cable from the battery goes straight to the starter body. I did clean all of those connections though.

Leland2 · Dec 16, 2009

they werew having battery cable problems at one time ,ask freightliner the dealers are aware of it

teddy52food · Dec 16, 2009

How much voltage are you getting to the starter? Sounds like a bad cable or connection or bad battery.

Bkpigs · Dec 16, 2009

I haven't checked at the starter but the dash display says 12.1 volts.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2009

can you use a screw driver and short the starter out to turn the engine, it should have a relay or solnoid (sp) for the starter alot of time on the fire wall can you bypass this to crank, take jumper cables and go from the neg on the battery to the ground at the starter and the neg on the battery to a ground on the frame, check your volatages, the first place I would check is the firewall

Bkpigs · Dec 16, 2009

I was thinking about the bad cable so I went back to my FIL's place and ran a jumper cable from the positive post on the batteries to the positive lug on the selenoid (making two wires for the positive supply). It did not help. It still just engaged with the flywheel and sat there. I know that doesn't completely eliminate the possibiliy of a bad cable but it does make is a lesser possibility. I didn't try the neg cable, probably should have though.

The lights in the cab get slightly dimmer when I try to start it so I know the starter is trying to turn.

trucker40 · Dec 16, 2009

Sounds like your batteries are too low to crank it.If you have a volt gauge in the dash and when you try to crank it it goes way down will tell you maybe.Also could be a bad battery.So you should have the batteries checked with something that loads them.Just putting a volt meter on them is not good enough.Also check all the cables and clean the ends.Cables can get corroded inside where you cant see it sometimes.Once you have good voltage that doesnt fall down real fast it will probably crank.Big truck batteries go bad.They have a bad life.Sometimes good batteries will last 3 or 4 years but 2 is all you can get sometimes.If one is bad you are better off to replace the others because in a short time they will go bad too usually.Also it could be the alternator has quit,so maybe you will want to pull it too and get it checked,or get it started and see if it charges high.If some diodes are out of the alternator it might put out 12 volts but it needs to put out about 14.Its probably a bad alternator or bad battery dragging them all down.Happens all the time.Some alternators wont last but 100,000 miles,some batteries wont last that long either.

MelH · Dec 16, 2009

Check starter voltage. Acts like 24 volts. I have some machines with full 24 volt systems. If you put a 12 volt starter on 24 volt system, It will really turn fast ----- for a little while. Put a 24V on a 12V system, just barely turns.

trucker40 · Dec 16, 2009

You can cross from the big hot post on the starter to the small wire on the starter that is on the lug by its self with a screwdriver and eliminate the switch and wires that run into the cab and crank it.If you do this you want to keep in mind that if you have low voltage,and it sounds like you do,the starter can hang engaged and keep cranking.If that happens you have to hit the starter with a hand sledge hammer to kick it out.Also if you want it to run you would have to turn the switch on and probably somebody would have to hold the clutch down.Most new trucks you have to hold the clutch down to start.

Owen Aaland · Dec 16, 2009

(quoted from post at 23:02:15 12/16/09) I haven't checked at the starter but the dash display says 12.1 volts.

If that volt meter reading is correct your batteries are very low. Fully charged should be 12.6 volts. 12.0 is considered dead.

bruster · Dec 17, 2009

If the starter spins while on the ground and does engage the flywheel, but will not turn over the engine, you have an electrical problem.

This is if your engine will turn over more than 1 revolution by hand.

With the starter mounted in place, turn the key to start and watch the volt gauge. If it doesn't move with the starter engaged,( you did say the bendix engaged the starter)and the needle does not steadily drop, you still have a ground problem

omahagreg · Dec 17, 2009

I agree that 12.1 is a dead battery!

Riverslim · Dec 17, 2009

How far south, tired arms? South of Decatur I regard as southern IL, deep south to me is Carbondale and below.

Bkpigs · Dec 17, 2009

Straight East of St. Louis

Bkpigs · Dec 17, 2009

It is a 12V system with a 12V starter.

Bkpigs · Dec 17, 2009

I load tested each battery individually and they were on the lower part of the green area. I tried a battery charger on it for a while on the 10 amp setting then went to the start (225 amp I think). It didn't do anything different then. I will leave the charger on longer this time and see if it helps.

trucker40 · Dec 17, 2009

Well 12 volts is not enough.I cant tell by what you wrote is going on.So watch the volt guage when you hit the starter,does it go down to say 9 volts?If so it wont start your truck probably.If it stays at 12 volts something else is wrong.All of my trucks volt guages had a green,yellow and red area on them.As I remember it 9 volts was beginning of the red area meaning you better check the batteries and alternator.On a cold day 9 volts is probably not enough to start it.Also all that power has to get to the starter too when you hit the switch.On my truck the last time it was in the yellow area to crank it,the alternator was bad.Bad batteries usually go straight to red or the low side of yellow.I dont know what kind of a guage a Freightliner has but it might be like that.

Bkpigs · Dec 17, 2009

The colored area I was talking about was on the battery tester. This Freightliner is a Columbia with a digital screen. That is how I got the 12.1 Volt reading. Last night when I went back out to try the jumper cable trick (to make two wires for the positive lead), it read 12.3 Volts. I am still not convinced that the batteries are dead. When I tried the battery charger the guage was at 16 volts (when I had the charger on "start") and it made no difference.

bruster · Dec 17, 2009

bk
Try and watch your tester on the batteries, and hit the start position.
If it falls from 12v right away below 9v, check for why there is a heavy draw.
If it does NOT fall and pretty much stays there, ground is the most likely cause

12 to 12.5 is MORE than enough to turn over The engine. You will still need at least 10.5 to activate the computer so the fuel will flow

Rollie NE PA · Dec 17, 2009

Just a thought. Check the short ground cable that connects each battery together. They have a special feature built in to them so you can't smoke something. I Know they are alot more money to replace than the positive cable.

trucker40 · Dec 17, 2009

Alright that sounds like a cable problem.If you had a solid 12 volts when you crank it,thats fine.There might be a clutch switch or a oil pressure switch that has gone bad not letting it start?If when you crank it and it has about 11 volts at the starter it should crank.If you have at least that much to the hot side of the starter then it about has to be a ground.The big trucks I know about have a spacer where it bolts to the flywheel housing.Maybe you need to pull that spacer out and clean it and the flywheel housing and the grounding surface on the starter.Try and crank it by jumping it.It should crank then.Actually you should be able to crank it while its off of the truck with the battery charger or a hot battery.You hook the ground to the case and hot to the hot and jump to the switch post on the solenoid.If it works that way it has to be a cable or some switch that wont let it crank.Seems like I remember some over crank sensor on the side of a starter that wont let you crank if you crank over 2 minutes.If it has that then you might have to hook a jumper wire on it to get that to crank.Ask somebody at Freightliner and maybe they can tell you.All big starters have a problem with that brass strip between the solenoid and the starter housing being loose or corroded.Might want to pull it off and see if its in good shape and tight.Also if you changed the starter but used the old solenoid it could be that.Solenoids usually wear out before the starter.

RodinNS · Dec 17, 2009

I'd recheck the cables and connections as well as the batteries if you have a set of known good batteries to stick in.
Also... I'd probably short the big terminals on the starter and see if it will pull in and crank.

I've seen the various relays in the control circuit cause the problem you're having. I've also had new, fresh out of the box switches (solenoids) go bad. The contacts may be bad in it. You could remove the front cover of the switch and check the terminals in there IF the thing starts for a short out...
It's getting awfully hard to get good starter parts these days. They're all made in China or Mexico and I think mostly crap.

Rod

OT/ Need help with '04 Freightshaker

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