Legal question MI idiot judge problem ? John T help?

I've got a pretty good working knowledge of the law, but this problem has me stumped. For context on this forum, it involves a small farm I own in northern Michigan. I live 800 miles away in New York.

I'll try to be brief. I am protesting my tax assessents and loss of ag. exemption - but that is not the issue here.

After trying to contact the assessor for a full year, he did not reply even once. Not by phone, email, or U.S. Mail. So, I proceeded onto the Michigan Tax Tribunal. That is their purpose.

I waited 8 months for a hearing date. Finally got one for December 8. I live 800 miles away, thus a 1600 mile round trip. I convinced my elderly wife's parents to go in our place since they live 50 miles away from the hearing site.

So, the day came, they drove over there and sat half a day waiting. The judge never showed up.

Keep in mind this was a cold winter morning. They are in their 80s and had to get up 5 a.m. to get to the hearing site on time. They sat there from 8 AM to 1 PM.

I got very ticked off. After making many phone calls to the Tax Tribunal in Lansing, the "boss" got on the phone. He informed me that the "buck" stops with him. He is in charge, he is a lawyer, he is a judge, Chief Clerk, etc. etc. Sounded like he wanted to convince me he was a god of some sort.

After some arguing, he told me that they sent me notice of postponement by U.S. Mail. I asked when. He got angry and finally stated it was mailed December 4, a Friday. Court was scheduled 8:00 AM the following Tuesday, two business days later. So, as I told him, there is no way that notice could of reached me in time. Mail takes 3-5 business days to reach me. I finally got the notice by mail on December 11, three days after the hearings were supposed to take place. The letter they sent was postmarked December 7, ONE day before trial! So, the judge either lied to me, or is incompetent. Maybe both.

Keep in mind that if we had failed to show up, we would of automatically lost our case.

I researched Michigan law and found this judge, technically the Chief Clerk of the Michigan Tax Tribunal, violated Michigan law.

Law reads as thus:

R 205.1340 Notice of hearing Rule 340
The clerk shall send the parties notice of the time, date, and place of the hearing not less than 14 days before the hearing.
History: 1996 MR 4, Eff. May 2, 1996.

Note the 14 day requirement, not one day.

So, I asked the Judge Clerk who I can complain to, and he told me "nobody." Basically "tough luck" peon taxpayer.

So here I am, pretty furious and frustrated. I've got a Judge clearly in violation pretending he is untouchable. I also still need a hearing to take place and refuse to send someone there, or drive myself, without assurance it won't be cancelled again with me being told before-hand.

It's impossible to call the Canadian governor of Michigan and Jennifer wouldn't talk to me anyway. I did contact a State Rep and so far nothing has happened.

So, thus the question. What the heck do you do when a government official who clearly ignores the law and almost brags about it. What is a low-level non-government, non-resident peon like me supposed to do?

Like I said, at this point, I'm stumped.
I can think of many things I'd like to do, but they are all illegal.

you get your guns and remove them from office.

At some point it might be worthwhile to contact news media.

Surely there is some farm organization in MI that would be interested in this since appearantly it may impact all farmers. They may have lawyers on call or could advise you about hireing a local lawyer.

There is someone over that judge. The state supreme court comes to mind.

If you decide to write letters to officials, I suggest sending then by registered mail.

Good luck. I can see why MI is having economic problems.

KEH

LOL.
I think after one day in prison, most people would rethink that advice.
To the OP, it's time for you to contact a lawyer and get this sorted out. Of course, a little media play may not hurt either.

(quoted from post at 13:31:50 12/12/09)
At some point it might be worthwhile to contact news media.

Surely there is some farm organization in MI that would be interested in this since appearantly it may impact all farmers. They may have lawyers on call or could advise you about hireing a local lawyer.

There is someone over that judge. The state supreme court comes to mind.

If you decide to write letters to officials, I suggest sending then by registered mail.

Good luck. I can see why MI is having economic problems.

KEH

Click to expand...

They need 7 On Your Side up there dont they?

In Michigan the Towship Supervisor is the go to person when you have a problem, frequently they are also the assessor, if not the assessor reports to the Super. Do you know your township officials? I would start from square one and ask for their help, forget trying to go over their head until you have had a discussion with the local government. If your posistion is reasonable you should get satisfaction. If at that point your still unhappy , move to your Michigan property , get your homestead exemption, and run for the Township Supervisor's seat. Then you can deal with New York from 800 miles away.

If the nnalert get their way people like this one will be running out Health care !!

I think a lot of judges think they're gods of some sort but a lot people think of them more as SOB's. There should be an ethics commision/ombudsman or something in Michigan that would look at complaints about judges. As powerful as this judge thinks he is, he still has to answer to somebody. You could try checking with a major court house. They should be able to tell you who to contact in regards to a complaint about a judge. I was considering making a complaint about a judge at a pre trial conference. He looked at the name of the lawyer, Adina, I had on a letter she wrote, and said "she must be Italian or something" insinuating that she wasn't very knowledgable. My girlfriend was at that meeting and we both looked at each other in disbelieve that a judge would say that. The lawyer who wrote the letter worked for the 4th largest law firm in Canada. Dave

No answer here, but sympathy. I can't remember, seems like you're in Otsego cnty? Here in southern Cayuga cnty. sounds like we might as well be in MI. The assessors have taken the position that it is their duty to ramp up property values(and lower exemptions) as much as possible. Simple me- I thought their purpose was to fairly assess property, so that at least this onerous, horse and buggy, archaic property tax would be fairly distributed. Fortunately there is still some response from the county office, although they are hesitant to step on the town assessors toes. I just got my ag. exemption renewal form. For the first time, the assessor is demanding proof of ag. income. I am working at finding out under what authority she does this. There is definitely an attitude of supremacy, not service,sweeping our country on all political levels-pushing us closer and closer to insurrection.

Remeber, this is the same type of bureacrats that want to run our health care.

God help us!

Gene

Here is where I would start:

http://www.agcmi.com/

Michigan's attorney general's office. Me think's thats where the buck will stop.

I agree with the thought to contact the local township officials to start over...but also most states have an office of legal responsibility or
some such name whose job it is to hear complaints about lawyers. You indicated the official is a lawyer and he's is bound by whatever code of ethics exist in Michigan. Although it takes time these bodies have teeth and can reprimand and even disbar attorneys.

my brother in law has a small law pratice in Brighton, Michigan send me an email if you are interested

Yeah, John, affirmative on 7 On Your Side. They would eat this junk up. For the benefit of those not in SC, Channel 7 is a local tv station and they sometimes have this thing of taking on bureaucrats.

KEH

Interesting concept "Public Servants".

They set their own hours, pay, bonuses, vacations, benefits and the taxpayer foots the bill no matter what they charge.

We think we have most of the felons in prison but the big thieves are working in public offices as public servants and we sit by and take it because we haven't taken up arms so to speak.

Taking up arms is one thing that the public servants are concerned about so they are steadily taking steps to remove the "arm" that we possess.

Now try to think like a business person and consider setting up a business in Michigan. That is one reason why Michigan has such a dismal state of employment.

Way back when I first had the problem with the assessor not returning any of my phone messages, emails, or ground mailings . . . I did call the Township Supervisor. I also had an issue of the assessor not filing paperwork I'd sent in. Township of Bismarck in Presque Isle County. When I told the supervisor of my problems he acted very suprised, and went on to tell me what a wonder and fair guy the assessor was. Hard worker, dilligent, etc. The next day, I found out the assessor is his grandson. So, it's "all in the family." So, I called to complain and got the guy's grandfather. No wonder nothing got done at that level.

I did that already. AG's office told me they only are there to help the State of Michigan deal with Federal matters. True or not, that's why they told me. They suggested I contact a state Representative. So, I then contacted Mark Stupak. At least he replied but also told me he only deals with Federal issues and told me I have to contact a State Rep. That is Andy Neumann. So, I called his office and have sent many emails. They replied once December 9 as thus:

Dear John,

Thank you, for your email following up on the call you made yesterday to my office. My staff has informed me of the situation and we are looking in to it.

Sincerely,

Andy Neumann
State Representative
District 106
(517)373-0833
neumann.housedems.com

This guy's official title is Peter M. Kopke, Chief Clerk of the Michigan Tax Tribunal in Lansing.

While he was cursing and screaming at me he imformed me that he is a lawyer and a judge besides being the Chief Clerk. So, seems he IS a lawyer and judge, but in this matter, that is not his official position in this matter. He is the Chief Clerk. He runs the office and makes sure "things get done corrrectly."

He told me that he was not required to send me proper notice within any specific time frame. Note again, court was scheduled on Dec 8. He put the notice in the mail December 7. I got it on the 11.

So, I read the rules and laws on my own and found this:

R 205.1340 Notice of hearing Rule 340
Michigan Tax Tribunal

The Chief Clerk shall send the parties notice of the time, date, and place of the hearing not less than 14 days before the hearing.

History: 1996 MR 4, Eff. May 2, 1996.

So now I wonder. Does the head man not know the law he's in charge of, or is he an arrogant liar?

I live in Michigan and the politicians are idiots and so are most judges.

Call the media and tell them your problem, it would have helped if your dad had a heart attack while waiting.

You may need to talk to the state attorney general.

As a lifelong resident of Michigan, I will try to explain some things as I know them. I am not infallible, so consider this well meant advice.

* Most rural township officials are not paid.

* You have to personally go to the township hall during a set period ( 14 days? ) every spring to contest your taxes. That or somebody with power of attorney. I don't know of any procedure for doing by mail. Never heard of anybody doing that.

* Ag exemption is pretty jealously guarded by the local farmers. And a lot of them sit on these boards of appeal. You have to show proof, such as documents proving some proof of revenue, a rental agreement, or a FSA #. They will call BS in a heartbeat.

* Your tax notice will list the time and place for appeals. If you do not appear before the local appeal board, you cannot go to the state Tribunal.

* At the local appeal board, you get maybe 10 minutes to make your case. You need to have comparable properties, local, in county, in township preferable, and be documented.

* They don't make this easy.

* I don't want to get into politics too much, but as far as contacting the state rep or state senator, as a nonvoter, you aren't gonna get much. Who the governor is is irrelavent.

* Once my father appealed his taxes. He gathered up values of 3 comparable properties, did a real nice presentation. They thanked him, told him they would let him know the result. He was denied. But they raised the taxes on the 3 comparable homes!!!!!

If I understand correctly, you are protesting the loss of an ag exemption? Are you protesting property taxes too?

In Kansas the county (the township is strictly road responsible...barely) is where you go to protest property taxes and ask for ag exemptions. Which is what I did the second year after purchasing my home and land. The tax valuation went up 30%. My claim to the accessor was that the prior valuation was correct and my home had not gone up in value 30% over the course of a year!! I also handed him a note from the farmer that cuts my hay and the receipt for payment.

The new appraisal was back to year before and my placed was listed "agriculture"......seems like a simple process here.

an arrogant liar & a drunk. Those jobs (sometimes called lawyers retirement pension) are political payoffs for political hacks that can do nothing else successfully. If you find a review board that will handle your problem, it too will be made up of loser hacks, and will not hear your case in 3 years. Then it will deliberate the matter & find in favor of him, who will be dead by then anyway. Thats what happened to me anyway. Its a stacked deck like that in every state in the nation & they've been stacking it for 200 years. Your only hope would besomething like the American Civil Liberties Union, who would take the case just on principle.

I really think you have to back to square one. And do it in person. Lawyers are expensive. And I really have to stress one thing: These people are generally totally unpaid. Even the assessor's job doesn't pay much ( if anything ). My township supervisor is a 3rd generation of his family to hold the job. It is more of a civic duty thing that they do it at all. Nobody has run against him that I can remember. In outstate Michigan, everything is relative. It's not by design. These guys are same guys in the local VFD, the school board, the county fair board, the VFW, the KofC or the Masonic lodge. These guys are volunteers, doing service to thier community. Being unpaid volunteers, they are hard to threaten. Do so at your own peril.

Well for some reason people dont stand up to them very often so they do what they want,how they want,and when they want.Everybody has a boss though.If word got out in a few newspapers and on TV about how things were being handled by him he is going to get somebody on his back.You might not ever find out who it is but somebody is going to lean on him.Or they could all be corrupt and just dont even care whats on the news about them.Maybe ask a lawyer around there what he thinks or maybe the ACLU.That seems like a lot of trouble for some jerk public servant.Thats why they get away with it.Nobody has time to waste messing with them.Lots of people have probably moved out of Michigan because of things just like that.You are going to pay their high taxes and like it,or move,or so they think.Just think of all the money they make when they get all those taxes.Then they cry and say they are broke and steal all of the money.Seems to be the same story everywhere.

Yes, that is the way it goes in some places including here where I live in New York. But . . . not this guy in Michigan. He and his wife have half the county locked up and do many towns. Way more then two people should be allowed to be in control of. It's all money and it is their full-time business. You've never going to find this guy pulling a water hose for a local fire department.

I'm fighting two properties in two different townships, but both with the same assessor. One is a house that I bought on foreclosure. It was trashed. Pipes froze and broken, heat does not work, roof leaking all over, foundation cracked, all apllicances ripped out, even the toliet and shower, etc. My wife and I intentionally wanted a cheap "fixer uppper." The reason being, since we're not living there, we can't get the Homestead Exemption and taxes will be double. So, with a cheap house, taxes would be low until we could actually move there and fix it. Then, we'd have the Homestead Exemption. We hired a State Certified Appraiser who put a value of $25,000 on it. The Assessor put a value of $120,000 and has never come to look at it.

The other property is 33 acres of fenced in ag land. The assessor removed the ag. exemption and won't give a reason why. Again, without that exemption as out-of-staters we pay double.

No wonder people are leaving those states up north. I thought the political system was bad here.

Going out to a Christmas party. Have a nice one.

Here in Penna. the state has what is called The Judicial Conduct Board where you can file complaints against lawyers/judges. I don't know if your state has a system to oversee lawyers and judges. Might be worth while to check and see if they do.

I'm aware of all the proper protcol and procedure at it applies to me and my situation. I did everything correctly, every step of the way, and everything on time. My papers for the "tax grieveance day" weren't filed intitally because the assessor said he'd "misplaced them." They mysteriously turned up when I complained to the Township Board on the day of the meeting when I called them by telephone. They then "heard" my protest without my being there, and refused it.

I'm also well read on current Michigan tax law, especially with the requirement and burden of proof involved for establishing a "qualified agricultural property tax exemption." The State of Michigan does not require proof of net or gross cash receipts from a product (but New York does). Proof involves demonstrating a property is primarily devoted to agriculture as defined by the state, and devoid of certain other uses that would disqualify it.

What has gone on here is, I've done everything to the letter of the law and/or regulations. The assessor and the Chief Clerk of the Tax Tribunal has not.

You have already won because what you just paid for the house IS fair market,no comps needed open shut case. On the protest the tax athority defaulted thier case when they failed to notifie you as prescribed. Quit wasteing time,there is also a prescribed time limit for you to make the next step. The office that customerly collects the taxs has ALL instructions,NOT the appeals offices. Get those instructions and act before time expires. I will say it again,STATE LAW REQUIRES THE LOCAL TAX OFFICE TO FURNISH PROMPT AND CLEAR WRITTEN INSTRUCTION FOR APPEAL process,LAW DOES NOT MANDATE ANY THESE A. HOLES YOU HAVE CONTACTED TO TELL YOU ANYTHING. Keep your eye on the ball.
The buck never stops anywhere in any state until all parties are legaly provived for even if that party dislikes the provision. Is it any wonder half the nation is ready to choke someone?

Sounds like this guy you talked to is either training to be a Congressman or getting ready to run for president. Seems like that's about all we have for representation regardless of what state we live in anymore.On the other hand, he probably wouldn't do any worse than the one we have in office now

The goof could just be completely incompetent and is buried in denial as he tries to hide his messes.

After reading your posts thus far, I have a couple of questions - You had a phone conference with the board, and they denied your appeal? Do you have the form stating that you were denied? From there you go to the tribunal. I read the Michigan Ag exemption stuff online, and it is pretty complicated. Basically tho, you have to prove to the Assesor that the use of the property is agricultural. Having a woodlot or sugarbush does not qualify. I really think that you are going to have to make the 800 mile trek, probably more than once. Once again, I know that when I contested my taxes I inquired about an ag exemption, as I had a couple of horses, goats, etc. The entire board was made up of farmers, and they basically jumped when I brought that up. (2002) I was told that that was reserved for people producing agricultural products for human use. Basically if you are not a local farmer, you aren't gonna get it. I didn't pursue it any further. I have looked at buying some local homes, cleaning them up and renting them out. What has stopped me is the non homestead status. If I have to figure on $300 + taxes per month on a modest home, the financing, and some allowance for maintenance, I come out to a number higher than the local rental market will support. And with appreciation in the future likely to be modest, I really don't see it as a good investment. Good luck, you are gonna need it.

JD, Sorry so late gettin here I went to a local Bluegrass Jam as Im a newbie banjo player wannabee and stayed till the last dog died.

I HEAR YA BEEN THERE DONE THAT I fought the federal Govt 8 years and I had to give up.

Heres my response, its late but Ill give you my best short answers;

1) OKAY in Indiana if an elected or appointed official refuses to do his job you have to bring an action of Mandamus to get a court order requiring them them to do it buttttttttttttt Im sure you realize its tough to get one judge or any officials or lawyers to force another (they play golf with) to do anything.

2) As far as any complaints, here you can file one with the Indiana Supreme Court Disciplinary Commission (against say a judge or an attorney) andddddd they actually do take them serious and you do get a hearing in which you can plead your case , but again its lawyers against other lawyers and they hang together

3) Many statutes which address notice and hearing times have the penalties for failure to comply tacked right onto the statutes, but if not usually at the beginning or end of a statute section or title or chapter etc you will find what remedies are available. Its often hard to find what sanctions or penalties are available but when a statutes calls for an affirmative action (such as notice) SOMEWHERE theres got to be a statute addressign penalties or sanctions for failure to comply SORRY I HAVE NO IDEA NOR ANY MICHIGAN STATUTES but your as well qualified as myself to research that on the net or wherever Mich statutes are available

4) ANOTHER CAVEAT.......Heres how the state will respond, heres their out and defense, ITS THAT YOU WERE NOT HARMED OR PREJUDICED so they will argue, "no harm no foul" i.e you DID NOT suffer any wrong or receive any adverse judgment THERE WAS NO DECISION and as youre aware your inconveniencve dont mean a hill of beans grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr For sanctions or severe penalties to apply for failure of notice etc type statutes THE PLAITIFF MAY HAVE TO SHOW HARM OR PREJUDICE and since you didnt get any unfavorable decision YOUR CLAIM WILL LIKELY FAIL


SOOOOOOOOO any mandamus action will likely fail (your werent harmed or prejudiced, there was no unfavoravble decision) BUT EVEN IF ITS FRUITLESS if the state has any sort of complaint process (like Indiana to the supreme court displinary commission) Id still pursue that FWIW

WISH I COULD BE MORE HELP I enjoy your posts and help to myself and others but all I can do is tell you how things work down here. Im sure you already figured that but it still helps to rant sometimes lol

John T BSEE, JD Atorney at Law

In Michigan, complaints regarding judges are handled by the state Judicial Tenure Commission. It sounds like the clerks actions are incidental to him being a lawyer and judge, but his uncouth behavior would seem to reflect poorly on his ability to serve as an officer of the court.
Michigan Judicial Tenure Commision

John T. As to your comment "ITS THAT YOU WERE NOT HARMED OR PREJUDICED . . ."

That is actually what this "Chief Clerk" shouted at me, over and over. He also said that the time frame was of no issue, and it did not matter if I waited 8 months or 8 years to go to court.

I told him I disagreed for several reasons. #1, I might be dead in 8 years and then my wife would be stuck with this mess. #2 I'm trying to plan future useage of my properties and need to know the ultimate status in a reasonable time-frame.

Michigan law provides many penalties to me, but not to them. If I'm even late to court, I can lose by default. It is all very one-sided.

Keep in mind I have two properties with two different problems.

But, in reference to the ag. land.

When I bought it, it had 100% ag. exemption. That because it is entirely livestock fenced. All 6' high wire-mesh, not electric. 80% brush and woods and 20% tilled crop land. Also has two ponds so animals can water themselves. Former owner free-ranged horses and buffalo in there.

When I bought it, I sent proper forms to . . . the assessor and the ag. department. The latter replied right away and gave me a registered ag. parcel #. But, the assessor never replied.

3/6/08 Department of Agriculture Presque Isle FSA office approved my ag. certification.

3/24/08 sent in ag. form to assessor for Qualified Agricultural Property Tax Exemption.

12/7/08 - still had gotten no reply from a assessor. I called by phone, and sent emails and U.S. mailings. No response and tax grievance day was coming in two days.

12/9/08 - the day of board of review met for tax grieveances. I called them, on the phone, while the metting was going on. I told them I'd sent in all proper paperwork for ag. exemption and never gotten a reply. So, I had no idea if I had anything to protest or not. Seems the assessor was there when I called. He said he'd "misplaced" my paperwork for nine months. But, then found it as we spoke. They quickly, by phone, told me they disapproved my ag. exemption. Note I never got a chance to prepare or go to this meeting.

12/23/08 I sent in paperwork and money for a Tax Tribunal hearing (actually for two of them).

3/3/09 I sent a letter to township Supervisor John Kleiber. I complained about Alan Berg the assessor who still had not replied to me. The supervisor went on to tell me what a wonderful guy Berg was. He neglected to tell me he was the assessor's grandfather.

6/7/09 - after many more emails and phone calls from me, the assessor responds for the first time. He states "This case is currently in the Michigan Tax Tribunal. At this point, we will not dispute assessments outside of the court process"

10/21/09 I recieved notice of a court date from the Tax Tribunal to take place Dec. 8, 2009.

12/8/09 My wife's parents show up to court and nobody else shows up. They waited half a day and left.

12/11/09 I get notice of court postponement by U.S. Mail postmarked Dec. 7, 2009.

you well probly have to get local legal help to state with i know you shouln't have to, when we moved to ky from co. it took some time to figer out all the ins and outs, that said had one problem could never get any help with even wrote to local congressman,no help. at that time no e-mail all slow mail. but we also wrote to the congresman that rep, the district we lived in in colo. well guess what in a few weaks we had a answer from ky congressman seem the local rep, and him had a chat, so this is what i would do send both them a regular slow mail letter i know it takes longer but you well get better results with a hard copy letter then e-mail. send one to you local congressman in NY and one to local congressman that rep the district in MI send both the same letter. in the long run you well probly have to go spend a couple weaks in MI. best of luck.