Bill collectors revisited

Just read the post and replies below about bill collectors. It amazes me how it's so easy to jump to conclusions and start talking bad about the way someone got into a bad situation.
Personally I don't have them calling me yet but it could happen any day given the current economy. In my case my wife and I got married two years ago last week. At the time we were both completely debt free, had savings, and the economy was still doing relatively OK around here. In other words she and I were both still working every day. Then our whole situation changed due to an extended court battle with the individual I posted about the other week. Now that we've used all of our savings paying laywers, and finally getting them paid off about two months back. We now find ourselves a year plus later still paying for court ordered therapy to help this individual learn how to develop a bond with a 6 year old little girl and given the nature of the court order really see no end in site. Add to that his lack of keeping up with the support obligation he brought upon himself and it just keeps getting worse.
Then add in the fact that I'm self employeed and haven't really worked full time in close to two months and it goes from bad to worse. Fortunatly I've had enough small jobs to keep things paid and have done some selling too but even then it's tight every month. What's really bad is that I have close to 50,000 worth of work just sitting awaiting the customers OK to do, and about a fourth of that owed to me from several other customers for work already done. Unfortunately that money is not readily collectible because the customers are in the same shape I'm in and have no work for their machines to make any money. Sadly in this business you often have to take a chance and fix a machine for the customer to be able to use it to make the money to pay you for the work. Once that's done, if you don't get paid in a timely manner, you then have few options. One is to add up additional cost and time of trying to collect with no guarantee on that course of action. Worst case you then have to spend more money you don't have trying to get a court order to reposses a machine. Then if you get that you'd have to add in the cost of a tractor trailer to pick up the machine, etc. In the end you'd have more money involved in getting your money than it's worth. In other words who'd be crazy enough to spend a dollar to collect a dime? So your stuck trusting that the customer will eventually pay you for the work as soon as they have work themselves. it sucks but it's business in the current economy so what can you do but grin and bear it and keep working???
Any way you look at it the economy is bad and whether others care to admit it or not it is very easy to be put in bad shape financially no matter what you personally do or how right you did it. All it takes is one thing beyond your control and it's all over but the shouting........
To all of you that have done things right or wrong and are setting pretty right now all I can say is I envy you. For the rest of us who have tried and continue to work our a$$es off to make it through a tough situation, all I can do is ask that you please keep us in your prayers...

I hear ya about all of us walking the thin edge of the wedge but the reality is what else are ya gonna do when young? Time is on your side.However,get ready for a big drop in the standard of living coming down the pipe.

02:

The standard of living in this country has been going down (vis a vis most of the rest of the world) for nearly 20 years. It is now about to fall off of the cliff.

Dean

Wayne,I had my own business with about 300 customers for 25 yrs. Along with my other duties I was the collection agent. I would advise you to keep after the customers who owe you. Remember, if the doors are still open they are still paying bills. Maintain a good relationship. Be casual about the request as if the lack of payment were just an oversight. I had times where I would get paid off, then find that they went under. They stiffed the big corporations but paid their small time friends.

I have 3 friends who have been in the tool & die business. One sold out in 1999, when he could get good money for his equipment and building. He is quite comfortably retired. The other 2 are just miserable. Both have gone from employing 12 - 15 emplyees, to nothing. Anything to do with manufacturing is a dead end.

Collections was the worst part of remodeling! I would put a payment schedule in the contract, was different for small projects but they still were there. That way, if they did not pay I could walk and still be within my contract. I worked a 6 week bath remodel for 2 lawyers, had a payment scheduled every Friday. First 5 were like clockwork. The last one took 4 weeks to get! I understand what you are saying. Greg

If you look at the stats for family income, it has been going downhill since the 70's. I visited Canada last year, met some distant relatives. The standard of living is visibly higher there than here. Ma & dad went to Europe a couple years ago. Same thing there. Meanwhile, we are off fighting everyone's wars.

Wayne, is your business along 74 sort or between Andrews and Marble?

Hey Wayne,

I admire and respect you for your work ethic through your troubles. There are definitely good guys like you out there with legitimate troubles that mostly aren't your family's fault. BUT a whole lot more guys out there maxed out their credit cards on restaurants, big TVs, four wheelers, etc or bought a too-big house for too-much money and now think that they should have their debt forgiven. My wife sees these people all day long in the bank. Every one of them thinks it's not thier fault and the bank should help them out. Her bank is small by today's standards with about 10 locations around Madison. They did not engage in all that shady high-risk mortgage crap and is in really good condition. Most of the sad sacks are coming from the large banks, looking for a handout by a small bank. Some of the stories she tells...

I wish you luck in your troubles and prosperity through your life.

My wife and I were in business for twenty five years. We were in a business serving the construction industry. Every thing was done on contract. We were sub-contractors under the regular contractor. There was pay schedule set up as the work was done. Had some big crooked ones who set out to get work done for nothing. Wife was responsible for collection. Now you talk about being tough she was. She has shut down Million Dollar projects because of not getting paid on time. She tied one up for two years. They wanted to settle for ten cents on the dollar. She ended up getting the total amount. She is beautiful and personable but when it came to us getting paid she was one mean Cat.
There are all kinds of lein you can use to protect yourself. Just got to do it all right
girib

NCWayne, what you posted is 100% understandable. Things happen beyond our control. Someone gets hurt, or has a medical problem, and times get tough. But like Farmerboy said, people also max out there credit cards on things they could do without.
Some of the stimulis plan was going to help people who were behind on there mortages, like rewarding people for messing up. What do the people who pay the mortage on thim get?

I see very little evidence of posters "jumping to conclusions" in those posts. Saying so is working from a false premise and leaves me not wanting to read the rest of your commentary.

Yes of course some people get in deep, even though they really tried to live carefully. My friend lost his farm when his wife got leukemia. They were frugal and had health insurance. Had no debts. All old tractor that he fixed himself (or I fixed for some hay). But, the insurance maxed out, and chemotherapy bills got over $250,000 dollars. She died and the hospital brought a judgement against his farm.
I suspect many people with private health insurance don't realize their plans have lifetime cost caps.

But, there are many people who have had unreal inflated paychecks for many years. Often Union workers who were making way beyond what they could in the private sector. And, many of those still spent beyond their means at that time. Now, many are crying poverty. I see it all over the place in Michigan with laid-off auto-workers, even though many got great "buy-out" or "early retirement" packages.

I'm disabled (at least, legally). I've had Medicare for years, but never used it and had private health insurance instead. I've also been self-employed since 1995. My wife just got laid off from her job where she'd been 20 years - and she got nothing - other then unemployment insurance. That because she's not a union or contract worker. We both know we're going to get into a jam if we're not careful, and we're paying $800 a month right now on health insurance. But, we owe nothing to anybody. No credit cards, no car payments, no mortgages. Our biggest costs are for health insurance and taxes on many properties we own. Those taxes keep going up in part, to support others who are whining. While many others I know blew money on new toys, cars, vacations, or some contractor to fix their house, we did everything ourselves. Anytime we had extra money, we invested in property and drove old rusty vehicles.

We all ought to be required to use whatever skills we have. If we try, and can't make it, then it seems moral that help should be given. For those that have demonstrated for years that they have not? Sorry, but I don't care what happens to them. Zero compassion.

I saw my youngest brother lose his job, company folded up, new job didn't have bennies, his newborn son got pneumonia, spent 3 weeks in the hospital, ran up 50K in bills. Ended up losing his house, his marriage. This is the only civilized country in the world where getting sick can make you lose your home.

There are plenty of countries that are socialist that indeed offer "Government run Health Care" if one favors socialism over our democracy, I still prefer the good old US of A and our system of government.. God Bless yall REGARDLESS of your opinions, however and

MERRY CHRISTMAS "Jesus is the reason for the season"

Ol John T

That's a good reason that your health insurance should not be tied to your job.

There are those out there who would argue that what happened to Spook's brother was his own fault...because folks don't plan to fail, they just fail to plan. There argument is that if he was wise, he'd have saved up enough money to weather the medical bills when the insurance ran out...or that, if he didn't have the money set back to pay for catastrophic illness, he really couldn't afford to have kids to begin with.

These are the folks who generally see nothing wrong with the healthcare system as it currently is. In their minds, if you can't afford treatment, you don't get sick to begin with. SOMEBODY had to have infected that kid with the pneuomonococcal [sp] virus...so if the parents had taken the proper precautions, the kid would never have gotten sick in the first place. But if the parents had saved up enough money to begin with before they had kids, the costs of treating the illness wouldn't have been a problem to begin with.

So to some folks, if you ever lose your home, no matter what the circumstances, it's your own fault; the "system" didn't beat you, but rather, you beat yourself because you weren't smart enough to plan ahead for every contingency. And since YOU'RE broke and THEY aren't, guess who's smart and who's stupid? The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

No, I don't really have a "fixed" location other than the shop behind the house. Beyond that 99% of the work I do is on large construction equipment and cranes that are pretty much stuck right where they sit when they go down.

Canada's healthcare system is flawed but is way better than the US healthcare system. A lot of people have had to go in debt for various reasons. Just because others aren't in debt isn't a reason to group all the people in debt as basically being dumb for getting in debt in the first place. Someone in a debt beacause of serious medical problems loses their home yet a big company like GM gets billions in bailout money. I guess contrary to what the Gov't. says, that they're for the people, it's still really only about the almighty buck. GM as a company declaring bankruptcy relieves them of paying a lot of bills and puts people out of work but someone losing their home to medical bills doesn't have that option. That's really sad.
As far as collecting money for work done, you shouldn't feel bad about asking to get paid for the work you did. It's not your fault for your customers financial problems. If they didn't have the money to pay to you, they shouldn't have hired you. If they're a reputable company they should have a line of credit for paying bills before a job is completed. I would talk to them and give them the option of making payments over say 2 or 3 months max. A lot of companies charge 2% interest per month on unpaid accounts. You're in the repair business, not the financing business. If a company is mad at you for asking to be paid, why can't you be mad at them for not paying? If they contributed to your current low finances by not paying you, do you really care if you lose them as a customer? Who else will they get to fix their equipment? Will that place finance them? You shouldn't have to suffer because your customers don't pay their bills. If the customers don't want to pay, you could just file a lawsuit. It will cost a little to file the claim but if you did the work and they never had any problems with it, you won't need a lawyer. They wouldn't have a defence. Let them sell a machine if they have to, to pay you. How do you know that these companies are in the same boat as you? Did you see their bank statements or books? They might just be putting a freeze on spending and since you're such a nice guy, you won't mind waiting to be paid. Sometimes in business you have to be ruthless. Demanding to get paid for work done is hardly out of line and taking less than full payment isn't acceptable. If they would have told you that they couldn't pay, would you have done the job? Like I said, their problems are not your problems. You have have bills to pay and had to spend money to fix their equipment. They owe you and should pay you. Waiting for the economy to get better could take forever. Dave

Or, Buzz, if all the ambulance chasing lawyers, and the "get rich happy lawsuits" would have been taken care of starting 20+ years ago, it could POSSIBLY be that insurance as well as hospital costs would be less even now, to begin with, and more people could afford them (insurance and medical costs) themselves. Gov health care is just a bandaid on the problem, that we are all going to have to pay for. The solution is not "giving" everyone insurance, the solution is for ALL of the people, to get ahold of themselves, and start acting more responsible, which in fact may get costs back in line. That and the illegal aliens going to the ER every time they have a cold, with no intentions to pay. My wife works for a Rehabilitative Dr, and if you don't think the Mexicans have the system figured out, I have a bridge to sell ya. The United States people are our own worst enemy.

Hey jdemaris, when I was talking about people jumping to conclusions I was refferencing the post below but also thinking back to other posts where the common thread was typically that anyone that had financial problems put themselves there by running up credit cards, etc. Even the post I made the other week about getting set up to accept cards for my business got responses talking about people putting themselves in debt using them. My intent was to simply tell a story near and dear to me where I know all of the facts and show it isn't always that way. Too I wanted to let others know that you can never plan too much or enough because there will always be things out of your control that can put you on a downhill slide. Many rock on through life thinking they are invincable and never give a thought to how close we all are to "living in the street" in the modern world.

Like you pretty much everything I have I have worked for and gotten on my own. I bought my house as a modular and finished most of the inside myself to keep it affordable. When I built my shop I got a deal on the block and swapped out labor to get them laid out of the footings (I wasn't fast enought and had to dig them out after every rain)and then did the rest on my own. I bought lumber and siding and roofing at the salvage yard and stick built the shop with very little help. I admit I own three vehicles, a old, rusty, but dependable'78Jeep J10 4WD, a decent'87 F150, and a decent '88 Camaro (I only bought it 3 yrs ago when I was still single to play around and date in. I'm hoping to be able to sell it without taking a loss if I can get a few mechanical problems taken care of but need the money to do that). The wife traded in her new Camaro when she got pregnant and now has a '02 PT Cruiser that is paid off.

In other words like you she and I have both done everything we possibly could to make things work yet we're still at the mercy of the blood suckers that are too lazy to work. It's not fair but what do you do. Sitting around boo-hooing about it gets you nowhere so all that's left is to get out and work harder for less and muddle through. It all works out to the one simple fact, The classic "American Dream" is long dead and has since been replaced by the "American Nightmare" where all of us hard working soles are at the mercy of the greedy bloodsuckers in congress, illegals from other countries, sorry a$$ legals from this country that don't want to work.....and the list goes on. We are the minority taking care of the majority so they can live their own version of the "American Dream" where they sit on their collective a$$es and collect money for work they don't do. That sense of entitlement has causede this country more problems than credit cards or anything else. Like any other tool cards are good if used properly, and like many tools they can hurt you if you don't use them right. in this case the US put a chainsaw in the hands of a 3 year old and people are wondering why the kid got cut......

We have a generation that has been drilled with marketing that tells them they cannot and will not be happy if they are not driving the newest car, have the latest stylish clothes, the largest home they can possibly get approved, etc.
It is all coming down and we have people asking how could this happen. It is so simple and obvious how it happened.
The operative word is GREED.
Even the TV church money collectors have gotten in on the act. They do not want to digress in the very lavish lifestyles that they have been living, so they are coming up with kinds of "schemes" to get money out of poeple that are already about broke.
The most popular one is "plant a seed in this ministry". I am appaled at the number of adults that actually think they can buy God's grace.
There were many years where people got God's grace and money was not even around.
The only thing that happens is the money is transferred to the slick talking preachers, and they keep eating high on the hog, flying around in their jets, living in hugh homes, having multiple homes, etc.

So when Glenn Beck tells you something is bad for you because it resembles some theoretical form of Government instead of a program good for society you just get all bent out of shape and want to join a tea party.
Which socialist programs do you want to quit? Medicare for you or your parents, the Army etc these all fit that scenario, if we don't want one, let's quit them all.
How come we never heard socialism under Bush, he cleaned out the banks to fight the war?

So when Glenn Beck tells you something is bad for you because it resembles some theoretical form of Government instead of a program good for society you just get all bent out of shape and want to join a tea party.
Which socialist programs do you want to quit? Medicare for you or your parents, the Army etc these all fit that scenario, if we don't want one, let's quit them all.
How come we never heard socialism under Bush, he cleaned out the banks to fight the war?

I like the way you write this, unidentified argumentative(These are the folks, So to some folks)when it's actually Buzzman.
So you may have owned a business or been a supervisor with a lot more disposable income, so why you planned to pay for medical costs that may equal more than everything you own, others planned to buy groceries.
There's nothing wrong with the health-care system if you're getting cheap good health care on somebody else's dime.
Took proper precautions, I guess you've never been sick or been in a Public School system. Our school system had heavy absences due to illness including the swine flu, but the Principle didn't want to call it off because she had spent a bunch of money on Fun Friday.
Don't care how rich or smart you think you are, it could all dissappear.

Re-read what I wrote, without adding anything.

The conservative position is, if you save up for everything, you'll never have money problems. So while you're buying health insurance, put aside the same amount against the day you lose your insurance. If you're gonna have kids, make sure you can afford them TODAY, not tomorrow; otherwise, in their eyes, you're just stupid to have kids.

Likewise, if you're gonna buy a car or truck, save up the money and pay cash. And make sure you've saved up enough for gas,oil, and tires for the entire time you intend to own that truck; otherwise, you're being one of those stupid people who are spending money they haven't made yet, because if you're not smart enough to know that tires, brakes, and clutches wear out--and you don't have that money set aside before you buy the truck--you're part of the cause for our economy going sour: you failed to plan ahead for the forseeable events of the future.

Of course, I'm one of the stupid people, too. I didn't forsee my first wife developing heart problems and dying at age 36. I didn't forsee the insurance company denying over $12,000 of her medical expenses as being above "usual and customary" charges, which meant that I was liable for paying costs over and above what the insurance paid. And I didn't have the entire costs of raising two kids set aside before I had kids, so once they were born, I was already one of those stupid people spending money I hadn't set aside.

And since I wasn't smart enough to go into the medical profession, I was one of those stupid people who thought they'd aways have a job simply because they showed up every day, learned every aspect of their job and did everything they were assigned to do, and did it well.

So, according to these "experts" who have never seen a problem in their lives, I was stupid in everything I ever did, and it's my own fault that I'm not as rich and successful as they are. I bought cars and financed them for 5 years, having no guarantee I'd have a job for 5 years. I bought a house on a 30-year mortgage, not knowing that I'd have a job for 30 years.

I was a stupid kid, because instead of spending my time after school and in the summer playing sports, I was running an afternoon newspaper route so I could buy myself a bike and Boy Scout uniform and stuff that most of the other kids' parents bought them. If I'd have been smart, I'd have played sports and worked on my cardiovascular health rather than agonizing on how to collect from the deadbeats who thought it was great sport to cheat the newspaper delivery boy out of the 45 cents a week they owed, since I had to pay for the papers whether these scumbags paid me or not.

NOW...wanna reconsider your comments, tlak?

GREED is still the root of many of our healthcare issues.
Imagine if much of the payments collected by insurance companies had been put away as it should have been. Afterall, that is the basic way a risk management company must operate. Their "product" is planning on having the funds to pay when the need arises. Not based against "year on year" payouts, but instead based on long term payouts.
But, instead of keeping the money, they paid it out in bonuses and grossly high salaries. Then, when they really need to provide the product that we paid for, they are short on funds. So, they find ways to cut back, eliminate customers, use our legal system to reduce or not pay at all.
It is a screwed up mess and all based on a few in a position to work the system based on their greed.
If we took the payments made, and spend it across a reasonable cost based healthcare system, there would be money left over after we paid for everyone. However, the few at the top that would not get their big bonuses would shut down the companies.
The government cannot even run itself effectively, no way they can run a good healthcare plan.
So, what we need it not more government, we need adults that are honest and do right because it is right.
Free enterprise works well until greed enters the picture, then all bets are off.

You have added some truly wise words, sir.

there were 3 little pigs. One built a straw hut, one built a mud hut and one built a brick hut.. and the came a hurricane and they all died.

Sometimes you get more health care than you can afford. Is that bad?

If you have government run healthcare, that will NEVER happen.

There are high end NEW procedures delveloped every year in countries where exist people who can pay for them. There are NO new expensive procedures developed under government run healthcare.

There are probably a million government employees that aren't complaining about their insurance.
There's the military system, the civilian system, Medicaid, Medicare, welfare, probably more. which one don't you like or think is run badly for the massive size.
We're already seeing what greed does.

There are probably a million government employees that aren't complaining about their insurance.
There's the military system, the civilian system, Medicaid, Medicare, welfare, probably more. which one don't you like or think is run badly for the massive size.
We're already seeing what greed does.

Good Heavans! I thought I was going to read about something related to tractors. Must be in the wrong site!

Only part reconsidered is you didn't write it as first person, other comments stick for whomever whould say that.

A big "Bingo!" to you last paragraph!!!

(quoted from post at 18:50:22 12/08/09) A big "Bingo!" to you last paragraph!!!

Click to expand...

For the most part, any one person is in whatever position he/she is in as a result of the sum total of all the decisions that person has made.

Why do so many think that they are owed something by others? Why this idea that we need an organization to take from the many to give (redistribute) to the few?

Why have so many been indoctrinated with the falsehood that corporations are the big, bad, ugly guy?

Without corporations (& other businesses) there would be no jobs, no products, much less opportunity for an individual to contribute, make a living, grow, & on & on.

Layoffs, etc.: Each pay day, you & the company are even, all squared up....you own it nothing, it owes you nothing. It isn't rocket science friends.

What planet are you living on.I understand what you said but it is far from reality.The old saying is "you can't get blood from a stone."That's the way it is with some people I deal with.I I don't look for any entitlement like alot of people.

Vito

I hate to tell you this but the health insurance industry makes a profit of 200 billion a year probably more.200 billion after they paid their outrageous salaries and have 20% overhead while Medicare doesnt have anywhere close to 10% overhead.Hmmm,seems like something is wrong somewhere.Its like health insurance is being rationed now by insurance companys.So why do you all put up with health insurance being rationed by insurance companys that you pay to provide you health insurance?You dont pay them to provide you insurance any more.They take your money every month but when it comes time to pay back they just dont pay any way they can get out of paying.Some companys are worse than others,but the older you get the less your insurance is going to pay until it doesnt pay anything in some cases.It is a big problem and so far nobody seems to be fixing it.If the people stand up and tell congress this is going to stop,it will stop.We really should have what France does.Who cares what you think if you believe a lunatic like Glen Beck?Call it socialism or whatever,but get ready to be socialist.Scream bloody murder about socialism but its better than the fasci$m you have now.Also if you are screaming about people getting health care that dont have it,what will you say if you need to use yours and they refuse to give you a proceedure your doctor wants to save your life?What if the doctor does it anyway and you end up with a 300,000 dollar bill,and loose your house.Now you are homeless,maybe disabled,what should we do with you?What should we do with your insurance company?If everybody that wanted it had something like Medicare,and had health care if they needed it,I dont think you have any reason to gripe.Plus you dont see the problem either.I hope you dont become homeless thinking you have insurance.However it is kind of lame to gripe about people that dont have health insurance getting some.I dont mean some stupid mess where they charge everybody 4ooo dollars a year either,real health insurance,or a system where you get treated,the doctor gets paid,and you go on living.It should have always been that way.You dont want people dieing because they dont have health insurance and then maybe they will stop putting the food additives in our food and stop lying about other things that are killing us because it will save money.They might even cure cancer.A bunch of greedy hogs living the good life off of everybodys misery is about a good enough reason to stop whats going on now.

Hey trucker 40, do remember back in high school they warned about the dangers of doing acid?

You should have listened to that advice. I've never seen anyone as far from reality as you are.

I've had government insurance for 49 years and I'm still with it since I retired. It covered my daughter too until she reached 22. I can get VA coverage too. Hal

I know that this is not going to work when there are a few that get everything handed to them while the rest of us work and dont get anything.Even ones who think they have something will be surprised to find out they dont have anything either.So how am I so far from reality?I dont believe a priveledged few should get health care.I also dont believe that people that pay premiums to a health insurance company should be ripped off.If you resided in reality you wouldnt either.
Well doing acid can be dangerous,if you try to drive you cant tell what color lights are!Peyote is better anyway.However once in a long,long while is enough.

The sad thing is... the day is pretty well upon us where you won't be allowed to use the skills you have to survive. No doubt a good many of us don't obey the laws because the laws are stupid... but if you did everything by the book today you'd pretty near have to hire a professional to wipe your arse.

Rod

I work on tractors to pay my bills.....does that make my post tractor related enough for you now?????

Banks, even small ones, use to only give you loans by what your credit and income showed that you could afford. So if your small town bank didn't do this they're just as guilty as the mortgage banks.

Who paid for the insurance for those million government employees?

Who will pay for the insurance for the hundred million that hussein wants to give to?


We EVIL CONSERVATIVES, that's who.

Pay your own way, deadbeat!!!!!!!!!!!!