Wagon wanderings

When I purchased an old 5 ton wagon running gear about 5 years ago, it had a small reach ( 2 feet) and I was able to pull it home at 40 mph with no problems. Now that I've got a 10 foot reach and a rack on it, it pulls fine with a tractor, but if I use a vehicle to pull it on the road, I can only get up to 20 mph and then it starts to wander side to side.
So do I take all the slack out of the tongue and steering mechanism? or maybe it would pull better with a loaded front end? or could I bolt the tongue down and kill the steering? (turning corners would be more difficult?)
Any other ideas?
Thanks

Probably easiest to reset the toe-in to 1/8" to 1/4", before doing any thing more.

Check the toe in on front axel.We had cotton trailers that would do that until we adjusted the toe in.

Also takeing the slack out of steering should help ,in addition to toe in.

Its very difficult to take all the slop out of typical running gear. Bolts as pivots tend to be loose and to get looser with time. I've heard of those wanting to move them fast replacing all the steering pivot linkages (on new gear with tight spindle pivot bushings) with ball ends like a car steering linkage. Those can be spring loaded to help keep them tight for a long time, but if the tongue pivot is loose tight tie rods will only help a little.

Gerald J.

A few things to consider in making a wagon tow correctly.

Shim up all loose joints with mechanic washers. Replace all worn bolts and sleeves if available. Replace loose tie rod ends. Now you have something to work with.

For the alignment procedure, I use 2 pieces of 1" square tubing about 8 ft long and at least 5 empty 5 gal buckets to support the tubing. Spin each wheel first to determine that you do not have any bent wheels or out of round tires.

Then set 2 buckets by each front wheel, one forward and one back just a bit from the outside of the tire. Set the 1" tube on top of the buckets and tight up against the side of the tire. The tube needs to go just a few inches to the rear of the tires, and way forward from the tires. Set the tongue on another bucket.

Now measure the distance from the center of the tongue to each tube (perpendicular to tongue). Adjust your tie rods until you have exactly the same measurement on both sides. Then measure the toe in by measuring the distance between the backs of the tires (sq tube to sq tube) and the distance between the tires at the front of both tires (sq tube to sq tube). Readjust your tie rods until you have 1/4" less at the front of the tires than at the back. You may need to adjust both tie rods to get this toe in and keep the tongue centered.

Lastly, check that the rear wheels of the wagon follow the front ones exactly. Your reach pole may be bent or the wagon gear may be mounted a bit diagonally under the stringers and box. This check can be performed by moving the buckets and sq tubes to the rear tires and extend the extra tube length towards the front wheels. Ideally the rear wheels will have a bit of toe in and a bit of camber (lean out at top), but this in not adjustable. I bolt both front bolster mounts to the box stringers and position the rear bolster correctly and then use 2 vertical pieces of 3/8" angle iron bolted to the stringers, making a slot for the rear bolster supports to ride in. Do the angle iron trick on both sides of the rear bolster. Lastly, take a 2 loops of chain around the stringer and bolster (1 on left side and 1 on right side) tight enough to allow the bolster to drop about 4 to 5 inches, but not enough to allow the stringer to get on top of the bolster support.

I go through this same procedure even with new wagon gears, as most are not adjusted correctly at the factory. If you follow this plan, you will have a wagon that will trail straight at even 50 mph (my son's speed, not mine). We even have 50 year old wagon gears that have undergone this procedure, and they trail straight loaded or unloaded.

If you are working with an old gear, clean, regrease and adjust your wheel bearings to minimize bearing slop.

I know this works, as my son and I have 15 wagon gears, many going 10 to 25 miles loaded with each load. We have fitted most of ours with tail and turn signal lights to increase safety for other drivers.

Paul in MN

Thanks for the response.
Some very good suggestions about getting the correct alignment and using chains on the rear, although I've seen wagons that were bolted down on the rear and loose on the front with chains to keep the stringers inside the supports. I suppose this allows the running gear to twist on very uneven ground without doing much twisting to the rack.
Pardon me while I go do some aligning.
Thanks

The easiest - cheapest - fastest way to keep it from wandering is to let some air out of one front tire. This will make it want to "pull" that one way all the time and it won't sway side to side.

Paul summed it up pretty well. Everything tight and perfectly aligned.

However, just to add a little to the discussion, some brands of gears are more prone to weaving just because of the steering geometry.

My neighbor has two Killbros 375 wagons on Killbros gears. I have two killbros 375's on Westendorf gears. Both are in the same age range. His wagons trail much straighter than mine, and he lets me know about it. He's the kind of guy who likes to go fast.

Then I borrowed his wagons and tried backing them in the shed. It was then that I found his wagons with the Killbros gears to have slower steering response than my Westendorf gears. The Westendorfs are more nimble in tight spots but they are also more nimble at speed, which is not good.

I'm not knocking or promoting any brand. It depends on how you intend to use your wagons. Some are just designed a little different than others and if you happen to have a gear that's not designed to handle speed you never will get it trail straight. Jim

i would try tightening the bolt that holds the pole more. we do this at work to all the wagons and most will do 40 but you also have to makesure none of the otehr steering components aren't loose such as tie-rod ends and bolts and such. this should help. also check to make sure toe-in is correct
M puller

I have to disagree with your procedure for setting toe in. I have never seen a tire yet that the side wall did not bulge in and out more then a 1/4 inch as you follow it around. So how can you get 1/8 toe in by measuring between side walls? A more exact way to set toe in is to drive a nail all the way through a board. Jack up a front tire. Push board with nail up against center of tire so when you spin tire nail point will scribe a line all the way around center of tire. Then do this to other front tire. Now measure across front of tires scribe mark to scribe mark and back of tires scribe mark to scribe mark and set toe in to what you want. Do this procedure with a load on the wagon because you want wagon to not sway with load on and toe in will change from empty wagon to loaded wagon. But that's a whole other explenation. Just trust me on this one.

One thing that will make a big diffrence on how well a gear will trail is how easy the tongue turns. The easier the tongue turns, makes it trail a lot better. You should be able to turn it by hand VERY easy when it isn't loaded.

If it is a little stiff the running gear seems to find all the slack in everything and wander from side to side.

Letting the air out of one front tire so it will pull hard enough not to sway is about the dumbest thing I have heard of and would not advise it

I completely agree with your more precise method of checking toe in, and I have done it that way. But it is very hard to do when working alone, and I have had acceptable results doing it the way I suggested. But I do go for 1/4" difference, not the 1/8" you suggested. When I get done, I usually rotate the tire 180 deg and check the toe in again. It usually comes out between 1/8" and 3/8", and that is good enough to get the wagon to trail correctly without excessive tire wear. I usually use take off 16" PU load range E tires on the wagons, as they are tough and cheap and have better measurement tolerance than the usual flotation tires have.

Paul in MN

It seems the dealer set-up hay wagons had the stringers bolted at the rear and were chained at the front. But I found that I could keep a wagon and gear in alignment for much longer doing as I suggested. It took a few years of experimenting to decide what was best. We started with used and tired wagons in the mid 80's and have slowly worked up to much newer equipment. It is rare to find a new wagon gear adjusted correctly, and some are way off. So buying new stuff is no guarantee of getting a good trailing wagon.

Paul in MN

Interesting point, and an observation that I had not made...but maybe should have. All of our wagons have to get backed into available barn space when loaded, and we do not have much extra width to play with, like only about 1 ft on each side. The longer the distance between front and rear bolster, the easier it is to back up, and the less wandering it will do. Thus gravity boxes are a bit?h to back up and really get them where you want them to be.

Paul in MN

Kevin,

Boy, I totally agree with everything you have said!!

Paul in MN

I had the same problem in a wagon several years ago. I went crazy trying to figure out what was loose and I finally found a slight amount of play where the tongue hooked to the steering gear. I redid all the bushings through the tongue and put a new bolt thru it. That solved the problem!!! Henry

If you need a quick fix to get a wagon home. like one you just bought at a sale. Take along a long coil spring like the type used on garage doors and fasten it at the bolster end of the toung and stretch it to the end of the bumper. That will put enough pull on it sideways it wont sway. I have also used a piece of nylon rope in emergencys but you have to turn only toward the rope or untie it or it may break the rope.

Could always just buy a new wagon