DOT and farmers

Got stopped in the semi yesterday hauling corn to town.Got a ticket for turn signal light out.No big deal but two hours later friend that was helping me got stopped pulling grain wagons with a tractor.Is the DOT even allowed to stop farm equipment? This is becoming a real pain.They just sit down the road from the elevator all day and write tickets all day long.

State revenues are off with the economy. Fewer trucks on the road to harass for $$$$, so they're looking for new meat.

and just wait till they start weighing wagons and start giving tickets for over load per axle

makes ya wish you could post yourself outside the police barracks and give each of them a no seatbelt ticket as they leave work. But alas at our level in the food chain fantasy is our only recourse.

As I understand, in Iowa all vehicles are bound by the axle weight laws including farm vehicles of all kinds. Never used to be a problem until the size of our equipment grew. Have you ever been close to a big wagon on the gravel road and watched the hardest part of the road sink under the tires? We've all seen the pictures of the tractor or wagon that fell through the bridge. Jim

'Here', wagons and farm tractors are exempt from all weight regulations and most dimentional regs. We must still respect overall height and I think 14' of width without an escort and permit. Trucks are not quite so fortunate.
Dunno what your regs are tho. It might be worth sitting down and reading the appropriate legislation. It may well be that the bears are getting giddy with the pen and pad...
I know there are some things 'here' that they harass about for which they have no actual 'law' behind them though it is no less a departmental policy. So they harass you. Threaten you, etc... but when the rubber hits the road, they can't charge you. I'm thinking of log books there... but weight regs on farm tractors may be the same type of deal.
I'd suggest you do some reading...

Rod

If the wagon had an SMV sign and it was daylight I don't know what he could write for. What does the ticket say? I'd for sure go before the local JP and fight it. Maybe contact all the other farmers around there and demand a meeting with the chief of police.

I would take the tickets to the judge and complain about harassment. They are not allowed to set in place where they give out one ticket after another.

The other I saw a city cop hiding behind a tree on a cross road. I also saw two people coming down the right side of my lane just across the intersection. they were walking straight as thought they were going to cross the side road. Just I got to their side of the intersection they immediately turned to cross in front of me. I have good brakes and was watching them real close because of the cop. I stopped in time to let them cross. In Oregon the pedestrian has the right no matter what.
Walt

They can here in Iowa. Wagons have to be under 20,000 lbs. per axle just like the trucks.

I pay road taxes and don't need my roads all broken up.

I have a 600 bu grain cart that would have about 30,000 lbs if I ran it full on the roads.I Don't.

If the DOT is stopping people you have nothing to worry about if you are all legal.

Been stopped twice with my grain truck and have never gotton a ticket.

Gary

Your gonna be upset with this comment but here it goes.

Run legal and you have nothing to worry about.

Gary, I talked to a farmer who hauls grain to town with the big wagons, and he said in a kind of snotty way "I can haul a lot more than a truck can". I happened to be at the elevator one time when he pulled across the scale with the two wagons being pulled by what I think was a 8430 Deere. The wagons weighed 107,000 pounds. The tractor was not on the scale. By the way, two days ago he lost those two wagons in the ditch when the hitch pin broke, which brings up another point. Wagons aren't required to be safety inspected like trucks. Jim

I do run legal the best I can but the dots around here will always find something to ticket you on.Last fall got pulled over hauling sand with dumptruck. He looked everything over and could not find anything so he ticketed me for an oil spot about the size of a quarter.I got real mad and just short of knocked him out so he red tagged truck.So to make him mad I dropped the oil pan right on the side of the road and put new gasket in.He wanted me to have it towed but I said nope I will fix it right here.Took that ticket to court and won.Some day that guy might pull out in front of me and I might forget to hit the brakes.

I agree with IAGary, but with the way the economy is - just wanting to pick up some more revenue?

Jim

I think they have authority to park where ever they want if they suspect that there are going to violations. Farm vehicles are not exempt from weight restrictions except in the case of perishable goods such as milk. I talked to a truck driver picking up a load at a friends dairy farm. Milk trucks are exempt from weight restrictions on roads. He said most drivers try to schedule their route so they aren't over the restricted weight on certain roads but it is impossible to know the exact amount they're picking up. Dot can be jerks at times though. Dave

I"ve got a friend/customer in Chapel Hill, NC that runs a small quarry. The DOT does the same thing around there, just sit down the road and wait on someone to come out so they can stop them for no reason and then nitpick things to find a reason. He had one awhile back followed a truck in through the gate onto his property. To make matters worse he said when the guy came in the drive he was going so fast he went sideways. The quarry is behind his house and the office is in the house out by the road. Now Tony has dogs and a kid, none of which have a problem getting out of the way of the slow moving trucks but wouldn"t stand a chance against this a--hole. By the time everything was aid and done Tony did 99.9% of the saying and the DOT officer found out real quick that his jurisdiction ended when he pulled in the drive on private property. Not only that he got his a-- chewed up one side and down the other for coming in sideways like he did. Tony"s one of those "little" guys that has a BIG attitude when screwed over and he gets screwed over by the local "law", politicians, etc so often it"s not funny becayse they don"t like his byusiness in the middle of their pretty little town (that grew up around him in the last 50 years) So, he catches he!! so often that he winds up in about .000001 seconds. I"d loved to have been there that day and seen the encounter with the DOT. Of course I"d love to have seen many of the others I"ve heard about from his employees where he faced down a firetruck coming on to put out a fire on the rocks (water vapor looked like smoke so they said)after he had run off a city official with no business on the property, etc etc. Thankfully there are still people out there that don"t take no s-it and still stand up to the government when they are wrong.

There jurisdiction does not end at private property,they can come in your house if they want to.The dot works hand in hand with the IRS and check trucks on private property all the time.

I agree.Cops in this town are out on the state Highway writing tickets again at night lately.I have seen farmers pulled over by the DOT this year quite a bit.They usually prey on the dump trucks but all of those guys went broke around here so now its the farmers turn I guess.Best thing is to have everything in order,lights burning,dont get mouthy with them.I know its hard to do,but they can make it hard on you if they want to.If the farmers got to complaining about it they might back off.Until somebody makes them stop they will probably keep doing it.Also somebody sends them out there to write tickets.Its not like they just decide to pick on a group like farmers or dump trucks,they are told to by somebody sitting behind a desk somewhere.Usually who they are picking on kind of deserves it sometimes,but not always.Probably 75% parasite cop and 5% group of trucks running with obvious problems,20% trying to make more money.Lots of cell phones too and people with nothing better to do than call in on you.Some "truck drivers" pulling a grain trailer might be driving wild or running fast,or crossing the centerline,and getting called in on.Most arent pros.Met one going to town a while ago today and trailer duals were in my lane in a 45 mph curve he was obviously speeding through.I didnt call but did think about it just for a second,but meeting him had no info other than day cab truck,maybe International.I can go around the same curve with a big road tractor and 53 foot reefer and keep it on my side,why cant somebody with a day cab and a 42 foot hopper bottom keep it on his side?Things like that dont help the rest,its best if everybody drives the speed limit and stays on their side as much as they can.

The state of KY must really need money right now. I know of more farmers getting pulled over this year than I have ever heard of. Buddy of mine got pulled over in a tandem got pulled over, they got him for not have'n CDL, over weight, no tarp, and brakes. He was not happy.

Dave

Milk trucks are NOT exempt

Sounds like the general public shouldn't be too happy with him either. Sounds like the cop was doing his job. Harassing truckers and nit-picking over little stuff is one thing, but your buddy sounds like he's a tragedy waiting to happen.

Not unless they have a warrant and a few other reasons.Not a lawyer,but they cant just come on your private property or in your house without a warrant.The IRS is liable to do lots of things but it doesnt make it legal.The DOT and IRS are not the same.Cops are likely to say and think anything nowdays.That doesnt make it right,legal or anything else.Maybe if you are on probation they can get away with more.So if they wanted to come on your property they would have to get a cop in that jurisdiction to get a warrant and go with them to your property and tell you they have a warrant.Also the warrant is supposed to say what they are looking at or for.Unless the truck is up in your house I dont see how they could come in your house.Unless you invite them in,then they can come in your house or on your property.

milk trucks must scale just like any other truck only thing they get away with is a cheeper lisc. plate fee and i don't see why on the plate fee

I think you might want to recheck that one. The bears used to lie in wait for the milk trucks here when they were still running tandems. It was easy picking. Same time, same place, every damn day. Same big fine. 'Here' they're allowed 80 % while spring restrictions are on. The rest of the year they're expected to adhere to normal axle and gross weights the same as everyone else...
I know we see a spike in transportation costs every spring due to weight restrictions too, in a BIG way... so the restrictions are not just here.

Rod

The DOT can come on your property without a warrant.

I have seen them drive up to a farm and start checking trucks for red diesel. They often sit at a auction and do the same thing.
They can also follow you off a road onto private property. All they need to do is say you would not stop on the side of the road.

I ran a triaxle dump for two years. got scaled a couple times. Got full inspections a couple times. the second time I got a CVSA sticker. Before I had the dump truck I had a business hauling hazmat with four trucks. We got a few minor tickets over the twenty years but only one fine. That was because I let my long time employee watch out for himself and he slipped up. But if you run legal you don't have problems

in a word yes dot has the authourity to stop anything on the road any time they see a violation or for no reason at all, they can inspect you and your equipment any time they want farm equipment is not exempt if it is operated on a public roadway , only if it is off road, the guy weighing 107000 lbs is luck he didnt get caught weighing that max weight on road is 80,000 lbs unless permited for more, i get this drumed into me almost every day, i drive for a living

My neighbor was put in handcuffs 20ft from his house while the dot and irs checked the fuel in his dump truck.He told them the same thing you mentioned about a warrant.They told him that his truck was under dot regulations giving them 24 hour access to any truck records or a truck inspection.

Always remember, They have the guns and you have the money.
It is as simple as that.

Its a MONEY GAME, they dont like that when I tell them that, bad thing is one will tell you one thing and the next one will tell you something else around here, my 2 cents worth they are all sob's

Son used to pull air compressor behind truck as part of jo b. He was stopped no less than forty times in 2 years for not having license on compressor. Compressors on trailers do not need license. Total harassment in mich.

Give someone a little authority, and they'll show you how much "class" they have.

We were laying blacktop one morning. Paver broke down on the header. Had every truck on the job, loaded, waiting for the call to get in line. They were sitting everywhere. I was in my pickup, catching up my bookwork, when a state cop pulled up to my window. He said, "You can't have that many trucks registered to the same common carrier." I said, "I don't know anything about these trucks - the contractor makes the arrangements with the trucking companies." He got real sarcastic and said "I bet you don't know anything about these trucks." I told him to get his little ticket book out and start writing tickets if he thinks something is wrong. He stared at me for a real long time, put his car in gear, and drove off. No tickets. Just wanted to be a horses patoot.

Overall, I've had more good experiences with cops than bad, but you don't forget the bad ones.

Paul

You got that right. Its all about the money. DOT's attitude sucks!

You can say what you want but this guy has been through so much harrassment that he knows exactly what they can and can't do on HIS property. He's been cuffed and taken to jail enough times for standing up for his rights that he doesn't care if they do it again or not because he knows when he does something he is going to be in the right and they won't be able to hold him. As far as anyone government related going onto someone's property to do something there has to be probable cause to get a warrant otherwise they are trespassing, period. Personally if I saw someone messing around on my place and didn't know them and they hadn't stopped and talked to me, showed me any official paperwork, etc they are going to be escorted at gun point to the nearest phone and a call is going to be placed to the cops. Once that call is placed the right is there to file charges for trespassing, illegal search and/or siezure, etc.

It's like this, if people in America would start exercising their rights over the government as they ar written instead of waiting for the government to "tell" us what our rights are just before they step on or over them then we will all once again be truely FREE.

I once got pulled over in a 24' truck, and the cop said i didnt have a CDL. He said anything over 10k lbs falls under CDL. They had about 5 other cop cars show up. I told them to start pulling everyone over in an F-350 for not having a CDL. He called his supervisor (wated about 4 hours of my time) and the supervisor told them to let me go. Anything over 26001 lbs is CDL. I told him to simply pull out the tx drivers handbook and look it up. It was just rediculous, cops trying to push their weight around. Over the years I learned most cops dont know the laws reguarding commercial vehicles.

This is what I was told in Alberta. What is the farmer supposed to do with the extra milk? Throw it out? Milk trucks still have to meet all other requirements so maybe they were getting pulled over for other reasons? They have quota's on milk here and big fines for being under or over. If over, then the farmer gets rid of the extra to avoid a fine.
On another note, I think the DOT or even the police can come on your property if they suspect you violated laws with a vehicle. A case in point would be if someone suspected a drunk driver and got a license number. If the drunk made it home, does that mean he's off the hook? I don't think so. Dave

That's a nice theory. But it won't work. No one knows what legal is. 10 cops, 10 different interpretations.

What you're saying may be true in NC, but I doubt it; state laws tend to be pretty much the same. In TN, the department of revenue (fuel tax division) ABSOLUTELY can come on your property without a warrant, without letting you know or telling you anything; he's gonna be in a 'state' vehicle and in uniform and if you pull a gun on him, you're ABSOLUTELY going to jail for assault.

My son bought a truck last summer, keeps it neat and clean and maintained. A couple of weeks after he bought it and put his name on the door a DOT pulled him over, checked his papers, told him to have a nice day and left.DOT was just checking out the new guy. He meets DOT cars a lot but so far hasn't been pulled over again though I'm sure his time is coming.

He hauls DDG's locally and does transfer grain between elevators. He's not allowed to leave with an overweight load and the local DOT knows that. The officers do talk among themselves and compare notes so they know who the troublemakers are. Keeping the truck clean and well maintained does not guarantee the DOT won't hassle, but it does cut down on the harrasement.

That's a common one. The rules get misunderstood two ways.

On a large dump truck that requires a Class B CDL (because it's rated over 26k), a driver can pull a trailer (like a compressor or a tarpot) as long as it's rated under 10k.

The other misconception is that any trailer over 10k requires a CDL. That is true only if the combined weight ratings of the tow vehicle and trailer exceed 26k, in which case a Class A CDL is required.

Where all of this "enforcement" gets irksome is that many departments are bringing in consultants to "train" these officers in clever ways to construe almost anything as operating in commerce, so that if you are over 10k you need a DOT number. A 1'2-ton pickup with a modes 7k trailer is suspeect whether loaded or not. Some states, specifically exclude things like trophies or ribbons won at a tractor show, but others do not and the diesel bears will call that trophy "compensation", whether you won one or not (it is the potential for compensation, whether it's for a profit or a loss, they'll tell you -- those consultants again) and write you up for non-compliance with every little picayune item they've been trained to detect. Had one say that he would red-tag such a rig for failure to carry adequate insurance ($1 million in liability coverage is required.)

What you wind up with is a bunch of officers out on the road writing tickets and red-tagging vehicles on the basis of sketchy, at best, applications and interpretations of rules, when as, in your son's case, they don't have a grasp of the most basic straightforward rules.

And compliance is almost impossible. As someone noted in a post just below, you can inquire of DMV, DOT, or ask any three DOT bears, and you will get five different, conflicting, answers to your question.

No they cannot if you say NO.I worked at a company with a fleet of trucks the Federal Fuel Checker would always check at the office before going to any truck and he said he was required to do it.But as a practical matter he could just wait until the truck hit the public street and check them.

You and I agree pretty much on how out of hand the enforcement people can get, but Wayne's friend might have been on thin ice, except for the officer's dangerous conduct. In a case like that, his friend may have been pushing his luck. Presumably his quarry business has a DOT number for his operation. Where the office for the business holding the DOT number is on the property, DOT can come in any time, no warrant needed, and inspect records and vehicles.

Alright they might say that and nowdays you read everywhere stuff cops do daily thats illegal.However unless we woke up in Russia today the Sheriff of any county has the right to arrest any cop,which would be a fuel cop that you describe.Why because this fuel cop is out of his"jurisdiction"because its a Sheriffs jurisdiction.I dont know how many Sheriffs even know that,but they should.There is no law that says a "federal"anything can just use you for a doormat.They may get away with it,but they also could get the wrong person one day and be at the best unemployed and use your imagination for the rest.Fish bait comes to mind.

I know nothing about the Federal Fuel Checker; my comment was about the TENNESSEE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE; what part of TN are you in?

Agree with you 100% Gary. I"m in my 33rd year of trucking and I get pulled over and checked regularily. I have yet to run into a situation like continually comes up here. If a person runs good equipment and have a good attitude, their problems will be non-existant. If the officer see matching tires with deep tread as he walks up along the truck is greeted with a good attitude whan he gets to the drivers door,the whole process is off to a good start. Took me a few years to learn it, but running legal doesnt cost....it pays.

They put more trucks on, shunt milk with tandems or small trailers to tridem trailers on full weight roads and/or screw with routes to beat or otherwise work around the regs.
Milk trucks are very much required to meet weight regs here in the maritimes, quebec and ontario. I'd dare say if Alberta does exempt them, then they're on their own with that.

Rod

It was a few years ago so maybe it's changed or is an Alberta thing. It made sense to me. The driver did say that they try to keep within the spring road ban limits but it's not always possible. Dave

Not unless Tennessee became communist and not a part of the United States any more.I know cops like to say ignorant things now days.Still doesnt make it right.If somebody in Tennessee gets this cop who absolutely thinks he can come on your property arrested by the Sheriff of that county for trespassing,and handcuffs him and throws him in jail,then he will have a hard time doing anything from there,which is what the actual real law is in the United States and Tennessee is still in the United States.For some reason Tennessee has communist cops,I dont know why.Probably a lot of ex MPs maybe.Also if the cop gets shot dead,and it could very well happen,and everything is in order,the shooter is supposed to have the right to do that.Even if you are a cop,it doesnt make you above the law.However cops get away with illegal stuff all the time because most people cant find a good lawyer that will fight,or have enough money to hire any lawyer at all.Also being cops,it seems like Sheriffs are just going along with this nonsense.Not all of them,because recently some have stood up.But some of them are just as sleazy as the others,As an elected law official they do have the authority to arrest idiot cops like are being described,and should.

Sorry trucker but now you are trying to say that you know more about the law than lawyers and sheriffs. With your thinking a guy could have seriously violated DOT rules or other laws but as long as he made it home, he's basically in sanctuary and the law, whoever it is, can't do anything about it. I don't think so. I think all they need is probable cause. If they want to search your house, they may need a warrant but to talk to you, I think not. If nobody did anything wrong, they should have no problems. If they get a big attitude with the law, can you blame the law for keeping a real close eye on them. Sometimes the DOT or other enforcement are actually good at their job and know who to watch. I'm glad they check trucks. There's some scary and dangerous stuff on the road. There are DOT and cops with a bad attitude and agenda but you can't say that all of them are. Get some actual facts before you start saying you know more than a lawyer or a sheriff or the DOT or the cops or etc., etc. I do believe there are certain laws that allow federal agents to enter your home, and even break your door down to get in, if they have to. Dave

Here in ILL 20,000 per axle on any farm wagon ,just ask the guy who had a 1200 bushel cart loaded and got caught driving across the state hi way to dump $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ .And IL troopers are known to swab fuel tanks even on diesel cars looking for red . But most DOT cops I have dealt with are decent people ,and I never got a ticket I did not deserve and always tried to have decent equip as the company provided me with it .

You are right that some are good DOT cops.Yes they could come talk to anybody,and for that matter as long as they are just checking something nobody is probably going to even bother them or argue with them.Now if they just get the idea one day to come in somebodys driveway,handcuff them while they dip the tanks,I have to say that would be going too far.Would a cop go too far?From what Ive seen them do,yes they will.Would a DOT or any cop for that matter be subject to do something illegal?Yes they will.Why do they act like that?Because they think they are above the law.Now all of the cops arent bad,and its good that we have cops.If there was no reason for the DOT they wouldnt make millions of dollars at those inspections for fines.Some people dont have very good maintenance practices and the DOT lets them know when they catch them,and I think thats good.I have seen the bad side though.Its easy to forget about the good side and remember the bad side.What kind of rubbed me the wrong way was that somehow Tennessee was supposedly allowed to do whatever they wanted to.Well in some places in Tennessee they have an attitude kind of like that at the scale house.Other places they are no different than anywhere else,not especially good or bad,just doing their job.I guess every state is like that.Its not that the law is wrong,or the people working for the state are wrong,its there are a few cops that will let the gun and badge go to their head and do things they should not do.Not just law either,in everything.What really makes an impression on you when you see it is they are wearing a gun.Then when you see a cop abusing peoples rights,wearing a gun.Then some guy thats probably a cop says they can just do this or that absolutely,I reacted by saying what I heard by listening to the radio and read about that a Sheriff has authority over all of the law in a county.In some recent cases a Sheriff has had to put himself between what Feds were doing and the people to keep the peace.One was in Indianapolis,another in Washington state about water rights.now down in southern Arizona a Sheriff is enforcing border laws.So i do know what I am saying about that.I think because a cop would be showing off because they let him work with the feds,that he would trample your constitutional rights in a heartbeat and there are lots of cases like that in newspapers,on the internet and more all the time.It doesnt change the fact that they still need a warrant to come in your house.Im not a lawyer either,but I have read about this stuff a lot of times and cops cant even get up inside of your truck or car without a warrant or you invite them.It was suggested that every time you get out of the truck you lock the door at a roadside inspection to keep them out of the cab if they handcuffed you.Wonder why they would put an article saying that in a magazine truckers read?Depending where you are,what the attitude is like,and how money hungry they are,the cops arent always your friend.Its just facts.It seems like more and more Americans rights are secondary to a cops career choices.That needs to be turned around no matter where it happens.Also cops are so nasty and un predictable that every company I drove for suggested to have as little contact with them as possible.So part of my job was to avoid contact with the DOT.Does that sound like they are knights in shining armor?Some may be.Good luck figuring it out if you are dealing with them.

All of your information is second hand. Reading about it or hearing something on the radio and not knowing the whole story doesn't make it the gospel. When dealing with laws and who has jurisdidction, there is no way an article in a magazine, or on the radio, is going to print pages and pages of what the actual laws are. Sometimes you can't avoid the DOT and they can be jerks. Other times it's good they set up road side inspections. I was stopped carrying my tractor behind a 1 ton. One guy asked for my license and reg. While he was looking at it, the other guy was telling me everything with my trailer was good and the tractor was chained down properly. Then the other guy comes over and gives me a $150 ticket because I didn't have a gvw on the side of my truck. I told him when I registered the truck and trailer together, they never told me I need a gvw on the the side. I see lots of guys hauling bigger skid steers and tractors than mine without gvw numbers on their trucks. So yes, I know they can be jerks. In the past they would give you a warning with 24 hours to correct it. I was told later that I could have fought it because the guy was only guessing how much my tractor weighed and for the ticket to hold up, he would have had to weigh the truck and trailer. Some cops are on a power trip but if they have good reason, they can come on your property and arrest you, even if it means they have to come in your house to get you. Dave

They run a TV ad in Wisconsin, (about buckling up,
but lets not go there) that says "Cops write
tickets to save lives". NOT SO, Thats all Baloney,
Cops write tickets to generate revenue !!!!