OT Welding Question

The bracket to lock up the toolbar on the nh3 applicator was broke off when I bought it. I'd like to weld it back on. I can weld good when fairly flat, but vertical is not one of my better welds. My welder is a 180 amp Lincoln buzz box. What would be a good rod to try to weld vertical with? 30 years ago, I welded on a cultivator frame and found that welding down fast and making several passes worked better for me than trying to weld up and have big globs of weld. I didn't have bi-focals then, that adds to the challenge. Any pointers welcome. Chris

you are going to need some 6011 electrode for that....and I would also reccomend doing an up weld vs the down....the down will have poor penatration and that bracket needs all the penatration it can get. clean both surfaces of the joint with your grinder & tack in place..then starting at the bottom , start your weld, and when the deposit starts sagging , pull the electrode off to the right, pause, let the puddle freeze, go back in start your puddle again then pull off to the left when it starts sagging again, pause , back in (all without extenguishing the arc)...it sort of helps to count, start the arc , get the puddle 123, sag whip to the right 456, back in the puddle 123, sag , whip to the left 456, back in the puddle..you will find a rythem when all is right. you may also need a little more amperage then you would think, I would suggest at least 125 amps with 1/8 6011, and probbably wouldn't be afraid of more...I hope this helps, it helped me get thru my vertical welding in school....Shawn

I use 7014 welding rod on most everthing I weld .. it works for me ..
When I can't lay it flat like you said I start at the top and work down ... watch the flow ... if you move to fast you don't get a nice bead ... if you move to slow , it will bubble over your rod and get a bad bead also .. like you said make several passes...

That's what I do .. right or wrong ...

Mark

A vertical up is a better penetrating weld. If you are getting gobs, you should learn by watching someone that can weld up. You have to step weld. Don't hold it in one place too long. Build a small step and keep adding to it on the way up. Keep swinging the arc to the side to let the puddle freeze and back again. 7018 is a good strong rod to use if your welder will run it properly. Some welders won't.

That bracket is important enough to justify getting a guy that can weld vertical to come out and get you started if not weld it entirely. Your money will be better spent there than repairing it again. Get some pieces of metal, position them in a vice and practice with someone that can weld, giving you pointers. You can learn with 6010 or 6011 which you need to use, around the farm. If you have a typical 180 buzz box it probably will not run 7018. Good luck!!!!!

125 is a lot warm for 1/8 6011 on a verticle up. I run 7018 at 105 or so for 1/8 doing verticle up. 90 amps would be more like the heat range for 1/8 6011 verticle up. At least that is what works for me. The old Lincoln buzz boxes won't pull a 7018 rod, mine sure won't. I have to use my Miller for that.

That surface it gets put back to sure needs alot of cleaning up.

I still have and use the Lincoln 180 that I bought new in 1955. I read how to weld vertical but had to see it done before I had much luck. I'd use 7014 rod and practice on scrap first starting from the bottom and going up. Set up a corner and strike the arc at the bottom left (if you're right-handed). Have the rod slanted with the tip upwards if you can. Move across to the right as soon as the puddle forms, hesitate a bit and move upward on that side a half-inch or so, hold it long enough for the lower puddle to set up and turn dark and go back down to just above where you started and repeat. You can have the heat about the same as for flat welding or a little lower. Keep a close arc but back off a little at the top of the upstroke, as I remember. It's been a while.

If he was welding with a dc machine I would agree 90 amps would be sufficient but it has been my experience with ac machines they need a little more amps....also I like a hot puddle, not so hot as to cause undercut , but hotter than most people are comfortable with....Shawn

Don't feel about not being able to weld vertical, I can't eather. I had to get certified to do some structural welding at our plant years ago. I don't know how I was able to pass the test. First thing to do is get a good helmet, the one that goes dark when a acr is struck
(auto darkening) That's half the battle if you have glasses. Can't recommend a rod, but I have had some success with plain old 7018. Stan

DMont is 100% right. get a pro. to weld that, watch how he does it and do it yourself next time. think about this, it was welded good by a professional and still broke. do you think it will hold when welded by someone that's not that great at vertical welding? I can weld vertical very well, but that part will be very hard to hold. good luck

You ought to grind that until its shiny before you start.Then I would use 6011 uphill.If you dont know how try and watch somebody and have them point out how.Its not as hard as you think but a little harder than welding flat.You have to watch the puddle not the slag.6011 burns fast so it doesnt take very long to run a pass uphill with it.Every welder is a little different so between 90 to 110 amps should work.You dont want or need it real hot to weld uphill.Not as hot as flat because you will be in one place longer and pushing the metal up,the slag falls out of the weld,a little cooler than flat keeps the weld covered with slag and a stronger weld.After you get a pass on it with 6011,chip,grind,whatever it takes to get every bit of slag off of your weld.Fix anyplace you dont like and get the slag off of it.Then use 7018 AC or maybe 7014 if you can weld uphill with it.Start at the bottom and weld a stringer up on one side of the 6011 pass or weave a wide pass that covers the 6011 pass.I prefer to weave it up so you push the weld up on one side of the 6011 pass cross the 6011 pass kind of fast,burn in and up on the other side,back across kind of fast,burn in and up on the other side so actually even though you are weaving,you are making 2 uphill passes side by side,but covering the middle between the 2 passes.By going fast across the middle it leaves half as much weld as on the side,but when you cross it twice it evens out your weld.When you get done it looks like a stack of quarters or something and is about as strong of a weld as you can get.On 7018 you watch the puddle not the slag,just forget about the slag,and move it fast enough that there is a line behind the puddle which is where the slag is.If you go so slow you are getting your weld puddle behind that line you are welding through the slag causing your weld to be porous.If you weld a weld thats porous and bubbles up,grind it out and do it again because that weld is not strong at all.Your 7018 weld will look rough before you chip it,but if you do it right it will look like a stack of coins once you chip it.Practice on something first.Downhill weld is alright for some things,I dont think that is one of them.

I would weld it what ever way your comfortable with. I am also a top down welder,holding a little closer arc with the rod tilted a little lower at the electrode end to hold the puddle in place. work the rod in a u shaped arc.
Just a self taught welder that has laid down some good ones vertically through the years. Mark

I looked at You Tube and there is one where they weld uphill with a MIG where they show the weld through the helmet.Try and watch that one and it kind of shows you how to weave a weld uphill with the slower on the sides fast in the middle and there is no slag in the way of seeing the puddle.Downhill weld is the weakest type of weld.Its fine for some things but not where you need a lot of strength.

7014 or 7018 either. Clean it up well and back to the parent metal. Make tack welds at the top and bottom about 1/2" long. then do it in several passes each being moderate in speed, and the first Root Pass bridging the two pieces. then travel next to that building a wide fillet in the V between the parts. after 3 or 4 passes going straight, and after it cools about half way back to air temp, start weaving the weld so it makes a wider bead surface. It will be fine, and the rod is self starting and strong. Jimn

There are alot of welders out of work right now hire one of them it will be money well spent.

6013 is a good rod for AC welders and easy to weld in most any position also it likes rust if not to much. 7014 and 7018 are good for experienced welders but not as easy to weld with although they are a stronger weld.
Walt

Welding vertical down is bad practice.Hire it done, get out you helmet and watch a good welder work.Pay him or her to teach you.