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If you borrow a tractor and damage it should u repair

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
I have sold hay to this guy for the last 2 years and I would consider him a friend.He asked me if he could use my dads CIN895 to load the hay to his truck.I agreed,After he was finished i noticed the front fiberglass wraparound grille was busted.I confronted himand he has agreed to buy part to repair.The problem is the part is $865 which is unheard of.I have tried to find a used grill shell with no luck.I asked my dad what he wanted to do and he said for me and the guy to work it out.What would you do?
 
Thats why I hate to borrow or lend equipment.But anyway I'd would feel like I should return a borrowed anything in as good or better condition than when I borrowed it.
 
Anytime I borrowed something and broke it, I paid to fix it.

I paid to put a clutch in a tractor I borrowed years ago.

Thats when I quit borrowing.

Gary
 
of course he should fix it, he broke it. now how bad is the damage if a new pannel is nearly 900 bucks can the whole panel be removed and taken to a auto body shop and repaired,and repainted? shops that can do fiberglass work can do some amazing things to repair something like that, might at least take few good clear photos and get a rough estimate , if i borrow or rent a piece of equipment it is always understood that i am also responsible for anything/ everything that happens to it while it is in my possession
 
Since he's agreed to buy the part, it just needs to be installed. Is he unhappy that you're pressing the issue? If not, and he seems sheepish about the damage, he's probably still your freind.

ANY parts are expensive anymore, and for as little material cost as fiberglass is, it's almost obscene for what molded parts are costing now days

Best rule for borrowing. DON'T
If you must borrow, return in like or better shape than when you borrowed it. (washed & waxed!)
 
It always seem like that every time i burrowed a dozer or a backhoe off my one buddy i would call him and ask and he would alway say yes but go get this one as the others are still on the job and each time it was the one that needed fixing before you could work it . Most times it was something easy to fix But the time i had to pll the right track motor out of a John Deere 750 dozer to replace a seal that he knew was bad before i even picked it up well that sorta made me mad . not counting the cost of the barrel of John Deere hydostatic oil and the cost of the seal it was the two and half days of free labor and then he calls me to ask if i had it fixed yet as he needed it on a job . This time i told him that yea it was almost back together and he could have it back when i was done with mine and i would take it back to where i picked it up then he could send his truck up there to get it as i always return stuff to where i got it from
 
If he had just flat out borrowed it, then yes he should fix it.

But since he was using it to finish up a transaction he had with you, that makes it a little bit different in my eyes.

That's too much for a situation like this.

Wonder what a body shop would charge to fiberglass it. You could almost spray it with a rattle can of paint.

Or, wonder what kind farm ins. he has? Generally they will pay to repair something that was damaged if you borrow it. Plus this happened as a result of a collision. Might be worth checking into.

Good luck, Gene
 
Yeah, I know one of my neighbor's wanted to borrow a tractor from me. I refused, he doesn't know much about equipment ( white collar guy ) and if he broke something, he would probably get angry at the cost. I offered to do whatever he needed, but he got kinda huffy about it. Hasn't talked to me since. Years ago, I loaned out a new Troy built horse tiller to a friend of mine. A day later, going by his house, I saw my tiller sitting out in the rain. I turned the truck around, laoded it up, took it home. He called a couple hours later to tell me it had been stolen!! I told him I thought he was done, so I picked it up. He's not asked to borrow anything since.
 
I would fix it. I borrowed a neighbors trailer once. Took me 2 hours to get the lights working. I would not have been concerned except I was pulling it on a 600 mile round trip and did not want to give anyone an excuse to pull me over.
 
I hear that ! I used buddies dump truck once. endgate would not shut right after one load .Got to looking at it main frame of dump body was bent and rusted out . I ended up pulling box off ,rebuiling it. Only a 1 ton,,but still a major undertaking. I let buddy know it was al rusted out , but he;s the kinda guy that just turns the key and goes . I quit lending out my trailer long ago ,,seems it would always come back withbusted lights or wiring ripped off, jack bent etc. Skidloader stays home too,well except one buddy . He has common sense and takes care of equipment . One time I used a guys disc. Bearings were shot and I busted a blade on a rock. I called him up and told him I;d need it another week to repair it , he was dumbfounded, said everyone else just brought it back broken .
 
Take the grill to an auto body shop. They can fiberglass the back of it,bondo and fill the front of it, paint it and it will look like new. SIL busted the plastic grill out of the 584,I glued the pieces back together and then turned it over and filled the chanels of plastic with fiberglass resin.The grill came out looking like new after the front was spray painted. A body shop can do a lot that we farmers aren't aware of.
 
He borrowed, he pays for damages. If you dont want to make him pay for his borrowing, then you go buy the part out of your pocket since you let him use you fathers tractor. Its you or him, NOT your dad who should be the loser. Tom
 
If he broke it, he should fix it. I would take it to a body shop and see if it can be returned to the condition it was in when he borrowed it.
 
I agree 100 % You borrow somebody's property and it was worn out or ready to break anyways and you end up getting them fixed up or a new one that you could have had for yourself.
 
He should pay for what it will cost to repair it.
I will only loan a digging bar & and a sledge hammer. No one will take as good as care of your equipment as you will. Hal
 
He should pay for what it will cost to repair it.
I will only loan a digging bar & and a sledge hammer. No one will take as good as care of your equipment as you will. Hal
 
Short answer is he should fix it. But if it puts a strain on a friendship that has to be considered, only you and your friend can decide that. I always tried to return anything I borrowed in as good or better shape than when I borrowed it. Now I tend to remember what my Grandad used to say,"neither a lender or borrower be"
 
Side-Bar: The best people to lend anything to are people that already have it and do not need to borrow it. I have learned that the easiest people to borrow stuff from are the ones that do not take very good care of it and then, it needs work, before it can be returned. The people that really take care of their stuff are reluctant to lend it. "Never a borrower or lender be." has merit.
 
Bring it to a body shop- and he should pay for it.

A good body shop should be able to fix it for much less than that. Oyur farm is right next to a body shop that does fiberglass repair and he's slightly more expensive, but they do good work.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
Forgot to mention- we borrow things with a neighbor all the time, but we take good car of their stuff when we do borrow it. A few years ago we borrowed their disk to go over some plowed ground, and the axel broke off right where the channel was welded to the tube. guess what- I fixed it.

Luckily I am a machinist so fixing it was no problem for me. I had Dad buy some slightly thicker that stock channel iron and brought the peices to school to use the CNC to cut the holes for the tubes to be welded in, and then I ground the old crap off the axel. I slid the 2 peices over the tube, then welded them together and then the channel box to the tube. turned out great and they were mroe than happy withg the repair. As a bonus I replaced one of the tires that was flat and was shredded before we borrowed it just to say we were sorry they couldn't use it when they wanted to because it was broke.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
What if the transmission goes out?? I aint paying for the whole thing..also look the machine over and if it has a bad tire and that tire blows out I aint goin put on a new one..maybe a used one.
 
I always say, "It's like Russian Roulette - if it breaks while you have it, don't bring it back broke."

Many times they'll stare at me for a minute, and then decide they don't need to borrow it after all. Lots of my stuff looks like it's apt to break any second, and that scares them off.

I also have neighbors who I regularly lend stuff to, no questions asked. They have proven to be of good character, and always take good care of anything in their possession.

It's very hard to cull the bad borrowers from the good ones. How do you tell 'til after the fact? The best way is to state your position before the loan is made.

I could not return that tractor with a busted grill. It would be fixed to your satisfaction.

There are costs to borrowing, and sometimes it's better to put money into the purchase of your own tractor, 'cause it's gonna cost him some dough, and he still ain't got a tractor.

Good luck. I hope your friendship survives.

Paul
 
If I borrow something, it goes back in better condition than when it left. If if nothing broke while using it. There is always something somewhere to repair. Even if it's just airing up tires or washing mud and manure off it.
A couple of matching new tires or decent tires to replace failing tires.Are still a bargain for the borrower.
Broken lights, instruments and charging system problems are common. It doesn't take long to remove and clean batteries. Scrape and paint the bottom of a battery box then clean and replace/relocate battery cables.
Fan belts are all to often glazed from running loose. Then over tightened and are ruining bearings.
 
I was helping a my boss break up a dove field and something like that happened. Key word is HELPING not working. He wanted me to fix it but I declined due to the fact that it was his dove field his equipment and my free time. I did fix it but he paid for the parts and my time for the repair. There were many other guys already in on the field so I wanted no part in the drunken activities that were sure to follow.
 
My Old partner in haying was one of those guys who would always say "You broke it you fix it" That was always good if I broke it but when it broke while he was using it then it was my fault because I used it before he did.
He blamed me for burning the clutch out on his baler
I was driving buy when he cleaning up my field as a favor to me. The clutch was smoking so it was my fault because I used it last. I went by to see what was wrong. The grass was sopping wet and he had the pressure turn way up on the bale tightener I picked up one bale and it weighed about 200 or more lbs. So I backed off the pressure and it quit slipping.
Well last week he tore the clutch apart still blaming me for burning it out. Found that it had been over greased and one clutch plate was not engaging, GEE, no wonder it slipped. But I know him he will blame me until the day he dies.
I like him, he is a good friend but he's awful to work with.
Walt
 
Many times when stuff is borrowed and things break, it isn't the borrower's fault. Especially major things that break. Chances are pretty good that it was going to break no matter who was driving or using it. Then, the owner should accept the responsibility of the cost of repair. I recently loaned out my old cattle trailer to a neighbor. One of the axles broke completely off. That was going to happen to ME the next time I used it. He took it all apart and I bought the new axle. He apologized, I said hey, I'm just glad I wasn't the one who had to deal with it. Common sense needs to come into play.
On a lighter note, I told my neighbor one time, "If you don't start fixing this junk up, I'm gonna quit borrowing it"!
 
For the most part, I have to agree with most of the rest of the folks. Anything I borrow is returned in better condition than when I got it. If it busts, I fix it.

In this case, I see two problems. First is it doesn't sound like it was exactly borrowed. Sounds like he was at your place (or your dad's) and was using your dad's tractor to load hay that he was buyin' from you and your dad. By rights it ain't his hay until it's on his truck or trailer -- I don't know what the custom is out your way, but in general we never expected people to bring equipment to load things like round bales. If they were buyin' square bales, yeah they ought to bring enough people to do load it. So if you didn't have time and told them to go ahead and use the tractor, that's a little different in my book than them borrowing/ you loaning the tractor.

Still, it's obvious he hit something with it to break the grille, and if it had been me drivin', I'd have been right up front about payin' for the damage. I don't know how severe or obvious the damage is, but if you give this guy the benefit of the doubt, and since he has offered to buy the part but probably wasn't figurin' on $900 . . .

Solomon says . . . Get an estimate for the repair and approach him with the plan to have a body shop make a good repair to it. You'll have a good job and a good grille, and I expect the other fella will be out some good money, but nothing like what a new grille costs.
 
I've had pretty good luck, lendin' and borrowin'. Lent my Oliver 550 to neighbor, clutch went out, he had it split and apart before I even knew about it- I insisted on paying for the clutch parts (he didn't break it, it just wore out while he happened to be using it). Same neighbor borrowed my ole baler, bull gear broke two teeth. He got an old machinist buddy out, they put a new keyway in and turned the gear so it had a new "impact point", then built up and shaped two new teeth with arc welder. Lent my trailer to a different friend annually, to haul his FIL's tractor- third year, he brought it back repainted!

Lent my baler to a different neighbor when his blew up in middle of hay season- he brought it back in good shape, plus a load of hay. But when I tried to borrow his backhoe a few months later, he said (with a straight face), "Oh, I don't lend out my equipment." I replied, "By the way, how'd that baler work out for you last summer?" He said, "It sure saved my bacon! Many thanks." But still no backhoe.
 
Too bad today's "tractors" are made of plastic and fiberglas!

Too bad he didn't have a grille guard on his plastic loader "tractor"!
 
I'd just make due and go 50% with him or try to not worry too much about it. It sounds like you have a pretty good hay customer, so in the future you'd have to tell him to bring something to load it or you just load it for him.
 
I hardly think the fiberglass grill was 'getting ready to break' in this case.That aside if I break it I'll fix it.Of course thats why I rarely borrow equipment,I just pay to owner to come over and do the job with his equipment.
 
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be". however, even if i did lend one of my machines out, it had better come back in the same shape as when it was lent. if not, i will demand payment for damages or demand they be fixed promply, or my lawyer will contact them, (for all the good that might do). i usally do not lend because it tends to cause bad will even amongst the best of friends. BTW, i do not borrow at all.
 
Yep, everybody has a different take on it. I get mine from Grandpa. He might borrow a haywagon or grain cart, but he'd never ask to borrow a machine. On those occasions when somethin' of his own was broken down and he had to do something, he'd work out a swap of work, something like I'll buy the fuel if you'll drive your tractor and baler to bale my twenty acres of hay, I'll bring my tractor and picker (and buy my own fuel) and help you pick your 40 acres of corn. He never had any trouble gettin' help when he was in a jam, and he always helped any time he could as neighbors would come to him and ask for help on the same kind of terms. And most of those guys did it without taking the other up on the fuel -- if one of them was in a rough patch and did tank up before drivin' home, nobody begrudged it.

Things are a little different these days . . .
 
Many times when I was young. borrowed machinrey came back in less than pristien condition. I would gripe to Dad as I welded and fixed, But he would just shake his head and say," good neighbors are worth a lot". I found out whet he meant one fall day. A cousin had been killed in an accident. Saturday after the funeral My father and I along with other uncles and cousins showed up at their place to help make their winters wood. They were gone for the day taking inlaws to the airport in the citys. as we worked word spread through the neighbor hood what we were doing. EVERY neighbor in a 4 mile radius came to help out. We made enough firewood to last my uncle for years. After that I understood what Dad ment when he said good neighbors were worth a lot.
 
I would give you 865 bucks and tell myself that borrowing is always a bad idea.It wasnt broke before I borrowed it.
 
My dad was a cuss when it came to lending equipment. His famous saying "I had to buy it when i needed it, so i suggest you do the same" He never borrowed a piece of equipment. I on the other hand will lend out equipment only if I, one of the boys or farmhands go with it and run it. If I have to borrow equipment only i run it and it is babied better then a newborn child. It is always returned in better condition then when i got it. If something does break or get damaged i repair it at my cost.

In this case, I would say its his cost to repair it as it cleary was damaged while he was running it. If you want to be nice about it offer to go 50/50 on the repair.
 
Does this fellow have insurance that will cover the damage??
When he borrowed the tractor, the obligation to be careful and not damage anything falls on him. We are strictly talking about damage; and not a breakdown... It is clear to see that he was not careful enough, so he should pay the bill for his screwup...
Ya, parts are expensive, but all in all,,,, your dad is entitled to a new grille if he were to request a new one verses fixing the broken one... Bottom line is,,,,,,, he did not loan his tractor out to anyone----YOU did.... may put you in a hard spot too..When this fellow asked you the initial question about borrowing your dad's tractor; I would have replied: "you will have to ask my dad, it is his tractor". So, being that you loaned it out, you are responsible to see that is repaired, whether the other fellow pays up or not..
 
If I break it, or if it break when I'm opertating it I fix it. Was using a friends Cat D7 and the pony engine froze up. Good thing I was able to overhaul it myself. Another friend let me fly his Cessna 210. Had to replace the starter. All these thing would have broke anyway, but sure keeps me from borrowing things unless I just have to. I wouldn't even think about borrowing someones $300,000 airplane now a day.
 
If he isn't man enough to make good on the repair then he's no man at all. Even if he had to make payments, it's the right things to do.
 
old Geezer, I like your story. When I was around 10-11 mid 1950's. Mom was talking with a neighbor lady, and said Dad was sick and that I was out plowing with the WD9. In a few hours I saw a big cloud of dust coming down the road. I think there were over ten tractor/plows. and all the neighbors ladies came and fixed lunch.Sure wished I had pictures of that. Country living is good. Last year 17 friends showed up to help me put up a steel building. I live to help someone.
 
Is it normal practice to load hay on your place using your equipment (versus the customer bringing his own loader)? If it is, then I would think partial compensation would be fair but not necessarily required. Around here, a seller would be expected to provide his own operator for his own equipment. If you loading is an exception I would push for at least half or better. Generally, around here borrowing is kept to a minimum (run your old junk and be proud of what you have) and tractors usually go out with owner operating it. Either pay cash for the time or trade some of your equipment time in return. I've done both. I would go the body shop route (maybe 150 dollars) and not push the issue too hard to preserve goodwill.
I would agree with those that say that being a hard head might make a person feel superior in the short term, but somewhere down the line the shoe may be on the other foot. You may need something from him or someone else and that gesture of goodwill will do a lot for a person's reputation. There is a fellow in the community here that will not do anything for anybody and at his age he is going to need to start leaning to others and it has been well discussed in the community the brush off some will give when that day comes.
 
My neighbors would come and take my wood if i had any,they also like to steal gas when i'm not home.
 
I have always felt that if I borrow something from someone and break it, I need to fix it. Consequently, I very, very seldom borrow equipment from anyone and very seldom loan out anything I think might possibly get damaged. One of those little "life experiences". Good luck!
 
Kinda depends. And depends upon how new it is and if you are worried about how it looks when you park next to the other tractors at the country club parking lot. If you broke it yourself, would you spend your money to fix it? Or to put it another way, if the guy didn't have a dime to his name and no insurance to collect, would you still spend your own money to fix it?

Kinda like a minor parking lot ding on an old car. At some point you are going to say that car isn't worth putting the money into it. Same for collecting a big chunk for hail damage on an old car. Sometimes better to take the cash and run.

If you answer no to the above and he is a friend then maybe tell him you need $50 to $100 bucks for the aggravation. Unless this is a show tractor or something. If it is just sitting out at the farm and will be for the next 20 years chances are you might break yourself at some point anyway. I've fixed many bumpers, windshields, door dings, etc. only to have something new happen a few months later.

I have borrowed trailers and loan out mine. I wouldn't loan it out if I was worried about some getting any dings in it. If it rolled in a ditch, hopefully he would have insurance. If it cut down a tire, I'd probably pro rate it unless I give it to him on baldies, then I wouldn't worry about it.

Only bad thing about a body shop is they want a fortune to fix and paint something anymore. I'd think about getting a plastic/fiberglass repair kit at wally world or autozone and a can of spray paint and fix it myself. He can pay for the materials. Put some reinforcing plastic behind it and use a mini torch to melt the plastic into place. Daughter let her boyfriend drive her car and he hit the curb and put a big tear in the bumper cover to where it was almost hanging on the ground. I drilled some holes, put in some pan head screws with brackets behind to pull the bumper cover in place and it does just fine. The crack pulled together and you wouldn't know it except for the screw heads. It's not like she is going to trade it any time soon anyway. Besides I already pocketed 2 grand from hail damage that you can only see when the sun is bright. Sometime I'm going to get some dry ice and try to remove the few dings that can be seen.
 
I try to make it a habit to only borrow things I can afford to fix or have fixed in case of a breakage.

I do if needed do PM on any small engines If it were a Tiller Like change oil Spark plug air cleaner.

Last time I borrowed it the belt broke, since I had to tear it down to replace it I painted it too.

Still cheaper than renting one. I have no room to have one of my own.

The big expensive stuff The owner will come and do the little projects for me at little or no cost , but we do things for each other in Barter.
 
I'm in Kaukauna, right on hwy 55 near KK. Wisconsin International Raceway is about a mile from our farm.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
The neighbor should pay to fix it. How else will he learn to treat others property with care?

This is why I dont like loaning things out. Almost every time it will come back messed up.
 
I guess my $.02 worth is, if I borrowed something and broke it, damaged it, etc, I would tell the person I borrowed from I broke it. If it were a small item like a tool, I'd just get it replaced or repaired. Something big, I'd say I broke it, how do you want it handled? I treat anyone's property like it were mine. I check oil, watch gauges, etc. Some break downs are going to happen regardless of who is operating a machine. Damage caused because the engine overheated/ran with low oil and kept going is all on the person at the controls. Likewise, you run into something and cause damage, it's all on the person at the controls.
 
He should check with his insurance and say he backed in to it with his truck, tractor, etc. I have liability insurance just for things like this. One year we had a break down and Dad borrowed a tractor from a friend to cultivate with(4 row) and the clutch went out, the friend found out 2 months later when the parts guy at the dealership asked how the new clutch was doing.
 
Yikes 800 and some bucks! Well thats why I dont borrow stuff.
Actually the last thing I borrowd was a live stock trailer to take a heffer to the butcher. I was going to rent one for $50 from a rental place but the guy that was buying half the beef wanted to save the half of the cost of the rental. So he said here you can use my uncles trailer.
It was a old rust bucket.

I didnt like the idea but the wife insisted and the other folks wanted to save the $25.
I only needed to use it for 15 miles max.
Load up take it to the scale, then to the meat locker then home.
STupid axel broke on the way home. It had rusted out and finnaly gave way. Lucky the uncle was reasonable and just said." It was gona go any way. No big deal."

But he could have been a A## about it and made my life misserable. I cussed my self out all the way home with that broke trailer." Dang it I knew I should have just rented one."
Not going to put my self in that possition again.

I do lend on occasion. But I hold no strings. If its broke I fix if its better than given. I thank them. Its just a measure of charature. Some people pass some dont. I never lend money, I give money.
That way there is only up side to the dealing. If they needed the help I am glad I could and if they thought enough of me to pay me back. Well thats just great now I can help some one else.
 
I have an agreement with one of my neighbors, he always returns it in better shape than when it left.

Having said that, I am glad I was running my Ford 5000 row crop last summer when it developed it's steering issues. Stuff wears out even with the best of care.

We both do some custom haying along with our own day jobs and our own ground. We try not to step on each others toes regarding the haying, he has the better big round baler with netwrap system. My Hesston 5580 is string only. Small bales all made with mine. But getting off topic somewhat, point is hay can't wait if something goes south. DOUG
 
Take the grill to a boat shop.They can make it better than new.Avoid borrowing things.Saw a 28,000 buck tractor with plastic fenders.For that price Id want steel fenders.
 
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