OT: property line-adverse possession

I am looking at buying a house on about 1.5 acres. The owners thought the property line was about 4 feet north of the driveway. It turns out the line is actually on the driveway and if I buy the property with the existing driveway I will lose about 8 feet of the driveway (12 feet total) and have a very tight space to try and back out of the garage to turn around. The existing owners have lived in the house and used the driveway and part of the neighbors property for 27 years thinking it was their own. It seems the current owners could claim the property through adverse possession if they chose to. As the new property owner I don"t think I can use the adverse possession clause because I was not the person that used the property for the last 27 years. We are going to try and purchase a narrow strip from the neighbor but if he will not sell anything can only the current owner claim adverse possession?

Adverse Possession is interpreted differently in various locales. Get an attorney familiar with LOCAL laws ASAP. Advice here from "jailhouse lawyers" may just confuse an already confusing situation. If "legal owner" has been allowing use of his property for 27 years, he would most likely be willing to settle and get cash out of the deal I'd suspect.

You probably need to talk a real estate lawyer in your area, but I think the current owner can only make that adverse possession claim. Hal

since you have discovered that the proerty line is not where everyone thought it was, the fair thing to do is to buy the strip of land. just because the person has been using it does not imo give them or anyone else the right to steal it. certain state laws do allow it, but with todays modern and accurate survey equipment everyone should be required to have to go by the survey.

I would get a lawyer involved.

I have a neighbor that uses my driveway for his own use but he has his own driveway. This neighbor is a real jerk and he and I havent talked in years. The issue is that I allowed him to use it and I asked him many years ago to not park any car or truck on my driveway, (and he agreed) But 3 years ago he started parking cars and trucks on it occasionally for a firewood business that he now runs. I may have to get the local fire marshall to put a stop to it.

When I bought my land a friend of mine told me to get a lawyer involved to get him to not use my driveway at all, I wish I would have got a lawyer and nipped the problem in the bu"" many years ago.

Talk to the owner of the property. If they agree to a right of way put it in writing. If not,move on.
A lot of good hearted people have been ripped off by greedy neighbors over the years. Being a good neigbor should not result in having some of your property stolen.

Regardless of the Legalities of the situation its not the way I'd want to introduce myself into a new neighborhood.

Id walk away from that deal and keep looking.

Since you will be neighbors to those that own the strip in question I would ask them for a long term lease or easement to acknowledge to them that I know they own the property.

If they refuse I'd walk away from the deal and wouldn't consider riling them up with court action knowing I would live beside them for years. To have a good neighbor be one. Starting off sour isn't likely to produce one.

Washington allows "tacking" the preceding owner's use onto yours to come up with the 10 years required for adverse possession. I suspect most jurisdictions are the same. We also have a streamlined procedure for problems such as that called a "Boundary Line Agreement" with which you and the neighbor just record a document agreeing that the boundary line should be the edge of the driveway. If neighbor is resistant, urge him to talk to a real estate lawyer (after you have already hired the best one in town, of course).

It would also be proper to make the offer on the property, contingent upon the present owner correcting the boundary line problem. May be easier for him to do it than a "newbie".

SMA, Im an Attorney here in Indiana and my first best and free advice IS TO CONSULT LOCAL COUNSEL familiar with the laws of your state and DO NOT HANG YOUR HAT ON ANY LAY OPINIONS OR EVEN MINE AS IM UNFAMILIAR WITH ALL THE FACTS AND YOUR STATES LAWS. This is simply too important to trust to lay opinions on a chat board, albeit well intentioned and quite often very accurate, but do you wanna take that chance ?????????

That being said, I can tell you that when you purchase real estate you can, unless reserved otherwise, get all the "rights title and interest" the previous owner had AND A DOCTRINE REFERED TO AS "TACKING" means your rights or the requirements, if any, regarding establishment of a claim of "adverse posession" can indeed be coupled with (tacked onto) whatever rights or claims or requirements the prior owner exercised. Say the statutory time period for a claim of adverse posession is twenty years, if the prior owner adversely posessed anothers property for ten years and you but the land and do the same another ten years, your ten tacks onto his previous ten so the 20 year requirement HAS BEEN SATISFIED. WHATEVER HE HAD YOU NOW HAVE subjest to certain restrictions. I.E. If he acquired title by adverse possession (thats the BIG question) you can now lay claim to the same.....What he had, you now have........

A survey IS NOTHING MORE then an experts "opinion" of boundary lines based on say a legal description such as contained in a Deed. A survey DOES NOT necessarily determine boundary lines, in cases of a boundary dispute ONLY A COURT OF COMPETENT JURISDICTION (or perhaps a "legal survey" if statutory requirements are met) can legally determine boundary lines. So many lay persons think when they hire a surveyor and he comes out and drives down stakes THATS ABSOLUTLEY AND LEGALLY THE LINE. True, it may well be (or becomse), but it can depend on a ton of other things also. Surveys are expert legal opinions ONLY, Courts are the ones that settle boundary disputes if litigated and sure, expert opinions will be introduced and the court will as a matter of law JUDICIALLY SET THE BOUNDARY

HOWEVER the adverse posession route can be costly, it can still be the best cheapest n most efficient thing to simply purchase a strip of land to settle a question between an adjoining landowner, even if adverse possession may say its already yours !!!!!!!!!!! BUT THAT REQUIRES A COURT REMEMBER AND LAWYERS AND YES EXPERT SURVEYORS OPINIONS THAT GETS EXPENSIVE

Also if he wants to fight it, the neighbor can run up huge legal bills, so if your claim of adverse possession has good merit ASK A LOCAL LAWTER HIS OPINION ON THAT, you ought to be able to use that as a bargaining tool and for not too much cash (IF ANY IF YOUR CLAIM IS STRONG) you should be able to get a deed from the neighbor in exchange for possibly some cash (possibly not) or other promises.

SEE IF A LOCAL ATTORNEY THINKS YOU HAVE A GOOD CLAIM OF ADVERSE POSESSION or for that matter, it may already be yours EVEN ABSENT Any adverse claim JUST BECAUSE A SURVEY DETERMINES ITS NOT YOURS DONT MEAN IT ISNT,,,,,,You may not even need to resort to AP

Where possible try to approcah the neighbor in good faith adn maybe you can negotiate a settlemt on your own ABSENT ANT DARN LAWYERS OR COURTS LOL. About the only expenses would be for him to give you say a cheap simple quitclaim deed of the property in question which, yes, a surveyor can stake off and furnish an experts opinion of the boundaries of such.......

Best wishes n God Bless

John T Country Lawyer in Indiana

Whatever you do, absolutely do not purchase or sign a contract to purchase without reaching agreement with the neighbor. Approach the neighbor and tell them where the real property line is and that you would like to purchase a strip of land to have permanent legal ownership of your driveway. If they refuse, DO NOT BUY this place, as it is not worth a lifetime hassle with disgruntled neighbors. Why buy yourself a lifetime source of extra stress? RUN. Tom

Adverse possession may not apply. All the neighbor would need to say (and he will if he gets a lawyer) is that he gave the former owner permission to use the property.

NOLO Press has a book about property line issues and it would be very helpful to read before going in to see a lawyer, it might save you some money by saving some of the lawyer time.

Good point, Adverse possession means what it says, the possessors occupation of the neighbors land must be HOSTILE OPEN CONTINUOUS EXCLUSIVE ADVERSE AND NOTORIOUS if its by persmission, ITS NOT ADVERSE.

John T Country lawyer

Just a suggestion: Make your offer to the seller contingent on the owner of the adjoining property granting you a permanent easement (or outright sale) of the property in question. Put a time limit for when an agreement with the third party must be reached, and set a maximum amount that you're willing to pay the third party. That way it's in the seller's interest to do everything possible to make sure you get the adjoining property.

I would think from the point of view of both you and the third party, a quit-claim deed to the property would be preferable to an easement. But a permanent easement should be fine.

IANAL!

When I had to take a law class in college over thirty years ago, here in Montana adverse posession had to include using the property as if it was yours AND paying the taxes on it. I think the owners also had to be aware of it being done to them.

I'd take a look at the tax value of the land on a square footage basis not counting the residence as a basis to form an offer to purchase. If the whole lot (empty) is only worth 5 or 10 grand according to the county tax appraiser, you can calculate what the tax value is.

Then figure out what the 27 years worth of tax the guy paid for that small piece. Maybe figure the current year times 27.

Add the tax value plus reimburse the 27 years of paid taxes, and it would be hard pressed for someone to say your offer isn't fair. Throw in some extra for interest if you want. Of course this is something the seller should do, but nothing wrong with you being neighborly and introduce yourself and suggest you want to be fair to him and get along from now on. Its worthless to you without the driveway and its really worthless to him cause he hasn't been using it. Otherwise it may be more mowing for him. In this economy, a 2 or 3 grand or whatever the figures are may buy him that new tractor project or something for the kids/grandkids.

Good luck and post back with how it goes.

I'd have it surveyed again. Maybe the outfit that surveyed it 27 yrs ago.

I'd have it surveyed again. Maybe the outfit that surveyed it 27 yrs ago.

The best advice I've seen here is to get the problem squared away before you buy the property. One thing that comes to mind here is that the neighbor may not be able to sell the strip of land, even if he were inclined to do so. He might have put in into a trust for the kids or grandkids, there might be a first or second mortgage on it, it might still be in his parents name (got it through heirship but has never probated the estate), it might be jointly held with siblings, etc. There's all kinds of things that could go wrong.

(quoted from post at 22:28:21 05/17/09) The best advice I've seen here is to get the problem squared away before you buy the property. One thing that comes to mind here is that the neighbor may not be able to sell the strip of land, even if he were inclined to do so. He might have put in into a trust for the kids or grandkids, there might be a first or second mortgage on it, it might still be in his parents name (got it through heirship but has never probated the estate), it might be jointly held with siblings, etc. There's all kinds of things that could go wrong.

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on't buy a problem! I have spent 50,000 fighting over an easement.

On the other hand, he may say thanks for telling me.. That fence is now mine or shift it where it should be..no cost to me, not my mistake.