Dan Swanson
Member
What is the max. KW size of Nat. Gas or LPG generator I would need to handle a 120/240V, 1ph, 200 amp standard house service? A furnace motor 1/8 hp and the rest lights, refrig. computers, no electric stove. Thanks, Dan
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- Thread starter Dan Swanson
- Start date
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Now that we need him?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Trust me, you dont need the "max size"(200+KW) gen for your place, 44KW is all your panel is desigined to handle(volts x amps)and Id be suprised if you really need half of that during typical operation. I have a 12KW diesel gen that runs my whole place just fine, only exception is if the whole place is going (5 ton A/C, lights,TV's, pool pump, stove,PC's etc.) and the wife turns on the dryer it will bog. So we kill the A/C when shes drying clothes, no big deal for us. Typically we're drawing 30-40amps the times Ive checked. And we use 10.5 gallons of fuel every 24hrs....OCG
PS check your data plates on the items you want to power and keep in mind starting amps VS. running amps..
PS check your data plates on the items you want to power and keep in mind starting amps VS. running amps..
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Are you thinking of an auto start/auto transfer standby generator? That way no matter who is or isn't around, the pipes don't freeze and the icecream become soup.
Water heater, AC, water pipe trace heating etc? Is there LP or natural gas already onsite?
Water heater, AC, water pipe trace heating etc? Is there LP or natural gas already onsite?
Funtwohunt
Member
City water, no sump pump, nat. gas and LPG availible. Auto Start. This building is Nat. Gas Heat, Central Air, 3000 sq. ft., 10 computers/ printers. It is a local Public Health Office that is needing to be capable of running in an emergency. They are not setting up to be a full blown multi- jurisdictional operations center. They just want to be able to run what they have now. I suggested, that there needs to be a 25% cushion built in because in a real situation you can get more load than you think you will have. They have recieved bids and they range from a 10 KW unit to a 200 KW unit. I'm thinking one somewhere in the 15 to 20 KW range would be O.K. Thanks,
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
An aircooled unit will require less service. I've heard from jdemaris that some of the past Generac units have long term durability problems.
You are correct to leave some reserve capacity for motor starting and durability. Too many times somebody decides to save the price of a few meals out, a bottle of booze and a carton of smokes. Just to purchase an undersized generator.
The undersized generator either can't or strains it's self and the load from under voltage & low frequency. The bargan hunter spends their time switching extension cords. Later they wonder why the generator's breakers keep tripping, why the windings are smoking or why the engine fails.
http://www.kohlerpower.com/residential/detail.htm?sectionNumber=13561&categoryNumber=13061&filter_1=Natural%20Gas&prodnum=224761
http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Products/Residential/Guardian/GUARDIAN20kW.aspx
http://www.homegeneratorsystems.com/products/intelligen/12_20kw/index.cfm
You are correct to leave some reserve capacity for motor starting and durability. Too many times somebody decides to save the price of a few meals out, a bottle of booze and a carton of smokes. Just to purchase an undersized generator.
The undersized generator either can't or strains it's self and the load from under voltage & low frequency. The bargan hunter spends their time switching extension cords. Later they wonder why the generator's breakers keep tripping, why the windings are smoking or why the engine fails.
http://www.kohlerpower.com/residential/detail.htm?sectionNumber=13561&categoryNumber=13061&filter_1=Natural%20Gas&prodnum=224761
http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Products/Residential/Guardian/GUARDIAN20kW.aspx
http://www.homegeneratorsystems.com/products/intelligen/12_20kw/index.cfm
Need a lot more info. I ran my house for many years during outages on a cheap Homelite 4400 watt generator and it worked fine, in a pinch. Had a 220 volt 1/3 horse deep well pump and a hot-air oil furnace, along with the lights, refrigerator, and miscellaneous. I had to make sure though, that the water did not come on while the furnace was on.
You've got to figure just how much you want to be able to do while power is down- and for how long. Sometimes during long outages, fuel is not available locally - so try to plan on having your own.
I also ran with a 15KW PTO genset hooked to a 28 horse tractor and we ran the entire household without ever lugging the tractor. Never heard it work hard. Electric hot water heater, oil hot-air furnace, microwave, refrigerator, freezer, 1/3 horse 220 volt well pump, computers, TV, lights, etc.
I'm on solar now, with battery backup, so running a generator is not an issue anymore. That is, unless we have a long outage and many cloudy days. Then I'll have to run a gen to power my 48 volt battery charger, to keep the battery bank up.
You've got to figure just how much you want to be able to do while power is down- and for how long. Sometimes during long outages, fuel is not available locally - so try to plan on having your own.
I also ran with a 15KW PTO genset hooked to a 28 horse tractor and we ran the entire household without ever lugging the tractor. Never heard it work hard. Electric hot water heater, oil hot-air furnace, microwave, refrigerator, freezer, 1/3 horse 220 volt well pump, computers, TV, lights, etc.
I'm on solar now, with battery backup, so running a generator is not an issue anymore. That is, unless we have a long outage and many cloudy days. Then I'll have to run a gen to power my 48 volt battery charger, to keep the battery bank up.
My 5500/8500 runs my whole place just fine as long as I keep the water heater out of the circuit. It'll run that, but I need to keep other draw to a minimum. Also not run the electric dryer or central AC. But for water, furnace, fridge, lites, it is fine. I use a central transfer switch for my 200 amp house service so I can upgrade in the future if I want to.
Electric heat works anything hard, even the power company. For that reason, I haven't seen a house with electric heat in over 20 years in this area of the northeast.
If it was zero degrees outside, and you had electric heat, electric stove, electric hot water heater, deep well 220 volt pump, etc. - you'd need one heck of a generator and a tractor to run it.
If it was zero degrees outside, and you had electric heat, electric stove, electric hot water heater, deep well 220 volt pump, etc. - you'd need one heck of a generator and a tractor to run it.
Don't go less than 50KVA. I have 2 85KVA natural gas units that run my data center A much bigger load than yours I know but for long term use (I ran for a week during the last ice storm) you will not regret the higher capacity. Auto transfer switches are a must for my situation, but you may be able to use the less expensive manual unit
I've got all of the appliances that you listed off. Everything at my place is run off of electricity. Have to be selective on what I run when using the generator. When the heat was on that was it. About everything else can run okay if the heat is off. My electric bill is still usually cheaper than what a lot of people pay for natural gas alone. It sure sucks when the power goes out though. Fortunaly we don't loose power often or for long. This time was due to heavy ice on the lines and 30mph wind. Even at that it was only off for three days.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
The painful thing about running a generator to obtain electric heat. 2/3 of the fuel burned goes up the tractor's stack and out the rad.
On of the back burned projects around here. Is to install a non electric LP fireplace on a thermostat for backup heat.
Right now around here. Resistance electricity is cheaper than oil, gas or LP. Only thing cheaper is coal, fire wood cut for "free" or a heat pump.
On of the back burned projects around here. Is to install a non electric LP fireplace on a thermostat for backup heat.
Right now around here. Resistance electricity is cheaper than oil, gas or LP. Only thing cheaper is coal, fire wood cut for "free" or a heat pump.
turn on everything you might need running at once and read the power usage from your meter. You could turn on absolutely everything and get that figure.
In an outage you do not need everything all on at the same time. You decide on the size of generator you can get by with. Remember they do need to run loaded to operate efficiently.
Remember whatever size you go for, the transfer switchgear must match your incoming supply rating and do not run on the house wiring unless the correct isolating change-over switching is used for safety of linesmen.
Regards, RAB
In an outage you do not need everything all on at the same time. You decide on the size of generator you can get by with. Remember they do need to run loaded to operate efficiently.
Remember whatever size you go for, the transfer switchgear must match your incoming supply rating and do not run on the house wiring unless the correct isolating change-over switching is used for safety of linesmen.
Regards, RAB
Bill Shafer
Member
I would go with a 45-55 KW unit. If you do not plan to run the whole house,this will give you more power than you need. You need to fiqure out what you want to run and what the amp load will be. If you need fifty amps for your house. Get a genset that will handle 100 amps. It is better to have more than you need than not enough.Buy a Transfer switch and have it installed according to the local code. A transfer switch will take your unit off line in the event of a power failure. You will not be connected to line power and will not have to worry about switching back when the power comes back on. It will all be done by the switch.You can also set up the switch to test the genset once a week with load or without load. The two best out there at this time are Kohler and Cummins/Onan. I would not mess with Generac. Hard to get worked on,parts are overpriced and very poor support from the factory. I have been a generator tech for forty years. So if you need to talk I am at 903-536-3202.
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